AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Reddeer]

Clearly if you cannot win when up 20 pts with 7 minutes to go the ammos are your best option ( to build up confidence)

[Wedgie]

Hope the Crows enjoyed being smacked in the face by the Karma bus today, well done Port (and the footy gods).

[Macca19]

50 players is another maccaism!!!

SANFL have lost 3 players to afl reserves in the last 10 years

The SANFL has had 3 players drafted in the last 10 years? Nice one

[sjt]

Interesting stats below. With the constant misinformation being published in mainstream press and sprouted by the likes of Keith Thomas, the below facts put things in perspective and "destroys" the myths being circulated as if they're fact. Constantly we read the SANFL is dying, becoming less relevant etc etc by those pushing their own agenda or that just have no idea.

As is evidenced below, as recently as 2011 (followed by 2010) we 've had the largest Home and away attendances since 2003. Last year was more than 2004, 2006, 2007 and less than 1,000 off 03 and 05.
Don't believe what you read.
The finals crowds in 2012 were back to 2003 levels, possibly due to the move away from Adelaide Oval?
It could be argued the SANFL is on the path to recovery (imagine if Port started to fire and their supporters returned also).
I think the Crows need "us" more than we need them - call their bluff!

Year Home & Finals Games Total Average Grand Final
Away Played
2012 259,242 52,309 96 311,551 3,245 29,661
2011 291,209 52,387 96 343,596 3,579 25,234
2010 276,583 67,308 96 343,891 3,582 34,355
2009 263,125 68,230 96 331,355 3,452 35,647
2008 275,842 86,367 96 362,209 3,773 34,128
2007 258,308 64,527 96 322,835 3,165 30,493
2006 255,446 54,406 96 309,852 3,228 25,130
2005 259,331 44,023 96 303,354 2,974 28,637
2004 253,597 59,200 96 312,797 3,258 24,207
2003 260,137 53,078 94 313,215 3,332 28,199

[sjt]

How's these stats!! Thanks to Spelly. When the Crows joined the AFL in 91 the average home and away crowd was 4,430 in 2011 it was 3,219 a difference of 1,211. Check out when Port joined in 97 the average was 3,219 exactly the same as in 2011!! This equates to no decline from Ports entry to 2011!! Don't believe the AFL spin. 98 had a good average, probably due the Magpies success.

1990 6536
1991 4430
1992 4167
1993 3776
1994 3955
1995 4172
1996 3747
1997 3219
1998 3689
1999 3195
2000 2966
2001 3106
2002 3101
2003 2890
2004 2812
2005 2743
2006 2839
2007 2867
2008 3065
2009 2925
2010 3060
2011 3219

[GrandOldFlag]

Good statistics SJT but I'm sure the AFL clubs would rather facts not come into this debate.

[StrayDog]

Why not offer them the 10th Club spot in our Competition?
Gold Coast is no further than Darwin

Can their first win be against the Port Magpies.....

[Tassie Blues]

I never take what the players want into consideration. How many players play 200 games at sanfl level these days at the same club? They are playing sanfl for 5-10 years. Supporters are for life.

Not for some on here it seems…

[sjt]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.

David

Hi David

To help clarify the above am I right in interpreting it as, at the moment you pay a license fee of $525,000 or $58,333 per club (as stated). Or do the Magpies not receive this so it's closer to $65,000 per club? Under the proposal to be able to use the SANFL with a reserves team, clubs would receive approximately $75,000 equating to an increase of $16,000 (or $10,000) more than current situation or "not too far off this"? Despite Olsen saying $80,000 sounded like a to generous a figure on what's expected.
Obviously this excludes the payments for the licence transfer and the Adelaide Oval agreement as these are happening anyway.
$10,000 (pittance) doesn't sound too attractive to me, though it would look very attractive to the Crows.

So currently the AFL contribute nothing directly? And the Crows pay each Club about $65k? Potentially going forward the AFL will still pay nothing and the Crows may pay the clubs $10,000 more? Time to rush in and change the fabric of SA football given that offer!!

[best for comp]

Gee commentary on SA players in afl ie the thread on aafl lads gets moved to the afl board

I'm surprised that pro afl afl reserves comments on this thread havent have been moved

in fact maybe this whole thread should be moved to that board given the No reserve posters can't cope with opposing views

Just in case pseudo doesn't visit that I site I thought I might place it here or his benefit re affect on sanfl finals
Re: New Lads AFL which is relevant to afl reserves tread


gee pseudo it took you two hours to attempt to wind this thread up

Surely you don't want to prevent SA footy fans from knowing how their players went and whether they are likely to play over the next two months in this compromised competition. gttee that Norwood will want Griggs and Thomas their finals side, Johnson and Moore for north Laird and Crouch for West Petrenko and Mitchell for Eagles ,Colhohoun for central the list goes on


Past years have shown the Power contempt for local clubs by not allowing them to play ifinals so it will be interesting to see their attitude to sanfl this year

imagine the outcry if the crows prevent Grigg Crouch Petrenko and Johnston from playing finals now they are out of afl race


Given these four will play for Crows for next our weeks I hope they don't foget their local game plans

gee I trust you other 7000 odd posts have been so Inciteful and more than one liners or directions to moderators

[rod_rooster]

Gee commentary on SA players in afl ie the thread on aafl lads gets moved to the afl board

I'm surprised that pro afl afl reserves comments on this thread havent have been moved

in fact maybe this whole thread should be moved to that board given the No reserve posters can't cope with opposing views

Just in case pseudo doesn't visit that I site I thought I might place it here or his benefit re affect on sanfl finals
Re: New Lads AFL which is relevant to afl reserves tread


gee pseudo it took you two hours to attempt to wind this thread up

Surely you don't want to prevent SA footy fans from knowing how their players went and whether they are likely to play over the next two months in this compromised competition. gttee that Norwood will want Griggs and Thomas their finals side, Johnson and Moore for north Laird and Crouch for West Petrenko and Mitchell for Eagles ,Colhohoun for central the list goes on


Past years have shown the Power contempt for local clubs by not allowing them to play ifinals so it will be interesting to see their attitude to sanfl this year

imagine the outcry if the crows prevent Grigg Crouch Petrenko and Johnston from playing finals now they are out of afl race


Given these four will play for Crows for next our weeks I hope they don't foget their local game plans

gee I trust you other 7000 odd posts have been so Inciteful and more than one liners or directions to moderators

You can't even get names right. It's Johnston with a T FFS! (and the worst bit is that you claim to be a North supporter as well). A bit butthurt from the Karma bus after today are you? Perhaps you have had a couple too many chardonnays? Something has to be used as an excuse for this fail of a post.

[The Sleeping Giant]

I never take what the players want into consideration. How many players play 200 games at sanfl level these days at the same club? They are playing sanfl for 5-10 years. Supporters are for life.

Not for some on here it seems…

What a surprise that one has gone over your head.

[The Sleeping Giant]

50 players is another maccaism!!!

SANFL have lost 3 players to afl reserves in the last 10 years

The SANFL has had 3 players drafted in the last 10 years? Nice one

Looks like you might have to explain that one to him UK Fan.

[Apachebulldog]

Best for the comp duh what are you on i do not understand what you are dribbling on about can you repost and make some sense.

The current system is the best of two evils which we have all now been accustomed to.

I have no problems at all if the AFL players are pulled out of finals.

I also have no problem if all AFL players are pulled out of the SANFL permanently.

The SANFL hopefully will one day be rid of all AFL influence.

It now seems that some clubs in other states have finally seen the light and are not interested in the AFL scourge.

Good riddance.

[adelaidefc]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.

David

Hi David

To help clarify the above am I right in interpreting it as, at the moment you pay a license fee of $525,000 or $58,333 per club (as stated). Or do the Magpies not receive this so it's closer to $65,000 per club? Under the proposal to be able to use the SANFL with a reserves team, clubs would receive approximately $75,000 equating to an increase of $16,000 (or $10,000) more than current situation or "not too far off this"? Despite Olsen saying $80,000 sounded like a to generous a figure on what's expected.
Obviously this excludes the payments for the licence transfer and the Adelaide Oval agreement as these are happening anyway.
$10,000 (pittance) doesn't sound too attractive to me, though it would look very attractive to the Crows.

So currently the AFL contribute nothing directly? And the Crows pay each Club about $65k? Potentially going forward the AFL will still pay nothing and the Crows may pay the clubs $10,000 more? Time to rush in and change the fabric of SA football given that offer!!

Is it an integrity issue or a financial issue, you're confusing me? I've sent some answers to more of your earlier questions to Dutchy to post in a separate thread but you are clearly underestimating the impact on SANFL revenue that the AFL and the AFL clubs have and will continue to have even when the AFL clubs are playing at Adelaide Oval. David

[adelaidefc]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.


David

So far you've effectively skirted around the issues. Look forward to the next installment.

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough for you. The WA model, which is being introduced in stages, is not relevant to us and there's been little to take out of it apart from how the WA AFL clubs feel about it.

[rod_rooster]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.


David

So far you've effectively skirted around the issues. Look forward to the next installment.

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough for you. The WA model, which is being introduced in stages, is not relevant to us and there's been little to take out of it apart from how the WA AFL clubs feel about it.

Lol, get done today did you?

[85 WAS A GOOD YEAR]

David I'm trying to come to terms with the top up players and can't see any option which will be acceptable by all parties.
Where will they train?
If not playing against their grass roots club, where will they play?
If Adelaide have no big men available to play Reserves in say rnd 13 ( due to injuries) does another player or two get taken from the team they've played in all season?

What about the cash reimbursement grass roots clubs & leagues usually get as players progress though to SANFL league milestones, AFL drafting, AFL selection?
Will junior clubs & leagues still be recognised, seeing as these lads will be taken out of the usual AFL pathway reimbursement system?

[rod_rooster]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.


David

So far you've effectively skirted around the issues. Look forward to the next installment.

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough for you. The WA model, which is being introduced in stages, is not relevant to us and there's been little to take out of it apart from how the WA AFL clubs feel about it.

Lol, get done today did you?

Again David, it's not up to me or anyone else to provide reasons why there shouldn't be AFL reserves sides in the SANFL. It's the responsibility of the AFL sides to put forward a compelling case as to why the SANFL should let them in.

[Tassie Blues]

I never take what the players want into consideration. How many players play 200 games at sanfl level these days at the same club? They are playing sanfl for 5-10 years. Supporters are for life.

Not for some on here it seems…

What a surprise that one has gone over your head.

how so?