AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Reddeer]

Some very good points now being raised that clearly cannot be answered by the Crows heirachy. Their silence is deafening
The upcoming club members meetings will be interesting

[UK Fan]

pseudo of morningside and uk fan maybe an update of your local club status might alert us to your current club and geography

didn't know that posting on this site was a prerequisite for having an opinion on sanfl
and that 45 years of tangible support for ones club isn't sufficient for your liking


maybe I should be grateful that my posts are still being referred to 2 pages later due to your inciteful responses

as for being a stooge I won't be reading your posts this afternoon as I will be watching the team for all south australians
live and continue to watch the roosters week in week out regardless of who in the comp


if your lucky I might have posted 10 times by end of weekend and clearly haven't gone away

Why the angst best for comp. wouldn't a tangible sanfl supporter for 45 years be pleased by the fact sANFL will solidify its claim as no 2 best comp in land by sending your crows to ammos. I thought that would make any SANFL supporter happy.

Or do you have other motives for posting on this site. Sniggers to self.

[Aerie]

SANFL can't just tell the AFL to piss off, well they can, but it wouldn't be wise.

I think sending a Crows Reserves team over to the VFL with the blessing of the SANFL, the Crows having a chance to develop the Under 20's who miss out on getting drafted while still aligning with their SANFL clubs.

The Crows Reserves would need to be marketed as a development team, while the SANFL is marketed as a fair dinkum Men's league.

The SANFL remains the 2nd best league because it is uncompromised. The Crows get to have their Reserves and at the same time develop the next lot of 18/19/20 year olds. After their stint they go back to the SANFL or local clubs with experience in the AFL system, or they get a chance to get on an AFL senior list.

All funded under game development.

[sjt]

Who was the player on Life FM yesterday who said he would like the Crows to come in as he enjoys playing against AFL listed players? He said it would be a good challenge.

That is a bit concerning. What do other players think about this? Has anyone asked them?

Think it was Luke Slattery.

I'm pretty sure he plays against afl listed players week in week out. Is this the slattery employed by the power or the westies one?

[rod_rooster]

Who was the player on Life FM yesterday who said he would like the Crows to come in as he enjoys playing against AFL listed players? He said it would be a good challenge.

That is a bit concerning. What do other players think about this? Has anyone asked them?

Think it was Luke Slattery.

I'm pretty sure he plays against afl listed players week in week out. Is this the slattery employed by the power or the westies one?

Luke is the Westies one. Henry is the ex Essendon list clogger now wasting his time with a degenerative hip problem at the Magpies.

[UK Fan]

Who was the player on Life FM yesterday who said he would like the Crows to come in as he enjoys playing against AFL listed players? He said it would be a good challenge.

That is a bit concerning. What do other players think about this? Has anyone asked them?

Think it was Luke Slattery.

I'm pretty sure he plays against afl listed players week in week out. Is this the slattery employed by the power or the westies one?

Luke is the Westies one. Henry is the ex Essendon list clogger now wasting his time with a degenerative hip problem at the Magpies.

Luke plays for port magpies!!!

[Agile]

Can anyone deny the fact that the crows were one kick away from a grand final last year, with the current structure in place. Cows and port have had a relatively successful history compared with the lower two thirds of the afl comp and when they have had a shocker of a season it has come from poor management /coaching. IE the cows this year with the behind the curtain debacle that is the Trigg, Tippet affair. Which will set the cows back by 5 years at least, IMHO.

As asked at yesterdays President Luncheon, " what becomes of the SANFL Reserves comp if the cows are in the league comp next year?"

And as stated by J Francou today, How could Lewis Johnston not know the team structures and playbooks with the amount of coaching staff and training that is done? He would have to be a complete idiot not to know. Which he is not.

[adelaidefc]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.

David

[rod_rooster]

Think it was Luke Slattery.

I'm pretty sure he plays against afl listed players week in week out. Is this the slattery employed by the power or the westies one?

Luke is the Westies one. Henry is the ex Essendon list clogger now wasting his time with a degenerative hip problem at the Magpies.

Luke plays for port magpies!!!

Right you are. My mistake. My comments on Henry remain true though. He should be at West (actually shouldn't be playing at all given his hip injury) but chose money and offers of employment at an AFL club over loyalty to the club that allowed him to clog a list for the 99 games he played over the years.

[rod_rooster]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.


David

So far you've effectively skirted around the issues. Look forward to the next installment.

[UK Fan]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.

David

Question 1-4. Replace WAFL with VFL for us please.

[LPH]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.

David

With respect, here are some concerns (whilst I still await your response to the PM sent, re: Market Research, Revenue Streams, etc.) with your response so far:

1. The AFL listed players are split for 2013 ONLY - next year they will play for their AFL aligned Club. So what that means is; players developed by Claremont, East Fremantle, etc. will no longer play for those clubs. So 'fringe' AFL players who play predominantly in the WAFL will be playing for Fremantle (Peel) & East Perth (West Coast). If we equate that to YOUR Club proposal, players such as Joncock, Vince, Petrenko, Taylor Walker (when coming back from injury) will play for the 'Ravens' not the Club that developed them - Integrity? Fairness of Competition?

2. You didn't answer the 'Crowds' question - so it's fair to assume you haven't checked. I will add that since Rob Chapman suggests an EXTRA 4000 will attend games - Will the Crows/Ravens make up the 'short fall' in revenue to South Adelaide, should only 1600 turn up to Noarlunga o a cold, windy, rainy day in August 2014?

3. Again, no answer in terms of Media Coverage - no doubt Channel 9's agreement with the SAAFL is an interesting development for you. Should you be forced to play in that competition, it might cause some issues for the AFL controlled& biased 7 Network & 5AA/3AW - PAFC may have a distinct advantage commercially, wouldn't you say?
4. Well answered.
5. The SANFL own you at present , so that money is a dividend to the 9 Clubs that own you is it not? - a bit like a franchise fee from a "Wendy's" or a "Jim's Mowing". Can I ask, do you lease the facilities or pay 'rent' to the SANFL for your use of the West Lakes 'precinct' (i.e. where your club is housed, where you generate income from the 'Shed', where you train? - If so, does this money come out of your $525 K?

[PhilH]

Slightly off topic but related to AFL making changes to state leagues, one of Queensland's most successful football clubs the Morningside Panthers is leaving the NEAFL (by its own choice) as it is restructured.

Interesting how Morningside went about their decision including that the club is better off the more distance they are from AFL influence.


ANNOUNCEMENT: By the Board of Morningside Panthers
RE: 2014 AFL/AFLQ Affiliation of our Seniors
Sunday August 4th, 2013
As has been previously announced, we have been asked by the AFL and the AFLQ to decide which competition we would like our Seniors to affiliate to in 2014. The choice we have been given is to join a re-structured NEAFL, which will operate as a more elite competition of fewer teams across two states and territories, or a re-created QAFL, which will operate across Brisbane and the Goldcoast and be the highest level of football available in Queensland.
As a consequence of your Board’s extensive consultation with our senior section, our club members and our sponsors, your Board has decided that our Seniors will affiliate with the QAFL in 2014. This decision has been made for the following reasons:
• We are a community club. We believe that it is important to retain our entire senior group, including our reserves, which the QAFL best allows. This structure also allows us to provide a pathway into senior football for our many talented junior players.
• We are not yet in a financial position to be able to make the large increase in expenditure that joining the NEAFL would require. We are not willing to place the financial position and the club’s future at such high risk.
• There is little support for joining the new NEAFL within our club community.
• We believe that we have the greatest chance of retaining existing sponsors, and gaining new ones, if we are perceived as a local community club.
• We have a rich history playing in the QAFL of past and we can look forward to continuing this tradition.
We have been given very little time by the AFL to make this decision and your Board is disappointed that the affected clubs were not consulted by the AFL and prior to it’s decision to restructure the competition. We will continue to seek a dialogue with the AFLQ regarding the way in which it can support and work with clubs like ours in the future, and as joint custodians of our game.
This has been a major decision for our club and all Board members recognise the affect it may have on individual players and our coaching staff. The Board is fully supportive of our current playing group and our coaching staff and we look forward to supporting them as we enter into a new phase of development for our club and the success that we all seek.
Your Board thanks everyone that has participated in this process, including those that have voiced their views, and we now look forward to the successful completion of the 2013 season and the new and exciting challenges of 2014.
Mike Mollison, Club Chairman and on behalf of the Board

[CUTTERMAN]

Since my lengthy post disappeared yesterday, I’ll try to do these in bits and pieces. Have something else on this afternoon though, so I’m not sure how far down the list I will get today.
1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the trhansfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.

David

Gotta say, thats a pretty poor and loose attempt at answering some very precise questions.
While its good that at the 11th hour the AFC is trying to reach out to the grass roots supporter and actually listen to their concerns if this is it then you might want to get your media adviser on the job pretty quickly.....yes the same one you used for the Tippett debarcle.
FWIW David, I've followed Adelaide for many years, travelled to Melb to see them play numerous times but if this is how the club works then I'm out and out for good. The way both AFL clubs are treating the SANFL public is disgraceful and you'll both be losing many supporters forever. Has the club ever considered just how many people will walk away from football AFL & SANFL forever and just what effects that will have in football in this state in the long run?
I've written to Rob Chapman to explain this, at least I got a generic email in reply. May as well not gave bothered.

[twosheds]

David
your vague spin and lack of any relevant detail is on a par with Mr Integrity (Trigg) on Life FM yesterday. Forget all the money, working in the club zones etc. I have one question - what the hell does "playing to the line" mean ?( Do you honestly think we are going to swallow that your development team is going to be trying to win the SANFL premiership.) No amount of feelgood corporate speak has answered that question yet, why is that , because you know that they won't.

[CUTTERMAN]

Slightly off topic but related to AFL making changes to state leagues, one of Queensland's most successful football clubs the Morningside Panthers is leaving the NEAFL (by its own choice) as it is restructured.

Interesting how Morningside went about their decision including that the club is better off the more distance they are from AFL influence.


ANNOUNCEMENT: By the Board of Morningside Panthers
RE: 2014 AFL/AFLQ Affiliation of our Seniors
Sunday August 4th, 2013
As has been previously announced, we have been asked by the AFL and the AFLQ to decide which competition we would like our Seniors to affiliate to in 2014. The choice we have been given is to join a re-structured NEAFL, which will operate as a more elite competition of fewer teams across two states and territories, or a re-created QAFL, which will operate across Brisbane and the Goldcoast and be the highest level of football available in Queensland.
As a consequence of your Board’s extensive consultation with our senior section, our club members and our sponsors, your Board has decided that our Seniors will affiliate with the QAFL in 2014. This decision has been made for the following reasons:
• We are a community club. We believe that it is important to retain our entire senior group, including our reserves, which the QAFL best allows. This structure also allows us to provide a pathway into senior football for our many talented junior players.
• We are not yet in a financial position to be able to make the large increase in expenditure that joining the NEAFL would require. We are not willing to place the financial position and the club’s future at such high risk.
• There is little support for joining the new NEAFL within our club community.
• We believe that we have the greatest chance of retaining existing sponsors, and gaining new ones, if we are perceived as a local community club.
• We have a rich history playing in the QAFL of past and we can look forward to continuing this tradition.
We have been given very little time by the AFL to make this decision and your Board is disappointed that the affected clubs were not consulted by the AFL and prior to it’s decision to restructure the competition. We will continue to seek a dialogue with the AFLQ regarding the way in which it can support and work with clubs like ours in the future, and as joint custodians of our game.
This has been a major decision for our club and all Board members recognise the affect it may have on individual players and our coaching staff. The Board is fully supportive of our current playing group and our coaching staff and we look forward to supporting them as we enter into a new phase of development for our club and the success that we all seek.
Your Board thanks everyone that has participated in this process, including those that have voiced their views, and we now look forward to the successful completion of the 2013 season and the new and exciting challenges of 2014.
Mike Mollison, Club Chairman and on behalf of the Board

Spreading like a cancer.

[Pseudo]

Slightly off topic but related to AFL making changes to state leagues, one of Queensland's most successful football clubs the Morningside Panthers is leaving the NEAFL (by its own choice) as it is restructured.

Interesting how Morningside went about their decision including that the club is better off the more distance they are from AFL influence.

Hooray! Yay team!

[LPH]

Why not offer them the 10th Club spot in our Competition?
Gold Coast is no further than Darwin

[heater31]

Why not offer them the 10th Club spot in our Competition?
Gold Coast is no further than Darwin

Can their first win be against the Port Magpies.....

[LPH]