AFL Reserves Discussion...

[LPH]

tried to answer all these but it seems to have disappeared

Check Triggy's Outlook

Filed under "Tippett"?

Don't mention the War...

[heater31]

The top of the table clash today in div 1 was full of blokes not quite up to it. What development would they offer your players?

Very good point. There is a reason why these blokes are playing at this level in the SAAFL. They either don't have the talent, desire or time commitment to be playing at the next level of football.

Yet a club at the top thinks it would be good for their players not good enough to make their first team to play against players who only train once or twice a week and do recovery in their own time.

Time to sack the recruiters and get someone with a clue me thinks.....

[PhilH]

Well it is an irrelevant distraction from the important issue at hand here.

David the reply field does often struggle with overly long replies.

Try it over a couple of smaller posts

[daysofourlives]

I believe the Crows going to SAAFL would be a very sticky result for the SANFL.

Do explain

SANFL clubs are already struggling with player retention due to the cash on offer in some SAAFL grades and in the country.
All of a sudden, a Crows side is in the SAAFL, players head there wanting to play for the Crows.
Crows will have to have a B grade side as well in SAAFL, there's some more players.
SANFL players start thinking that, even if they're not in the Crows, the chance to play under the noses of the Crows and be observed by Crows officials means they consider crossing to a top-flight SAAFL club.
The Crows in the SAAFL sees additional media directed towards that league, eating into SANFL coverage which has already shrunk over the years.
While the Crows also direct valuable funds, which would have gone to the SANFL clubs, towards the SAAFL.
Prestige is a very important part of the SANFL package but that prestige could be significantly reduced by a Crows side taking SANFL standard players to the SAAFL.

Those are all obviously worse case scenarios, but an SANFL side breaking away and trying to join the AFL wasn't a scenario we all thought would happen in 1990 either, was it?

Only problem for these players is they must be on an SANFL clubs list to be drafted. The AFC would like us to believe players will move but in reality unless the AFL changes the rules nothing will change.

[rod_rooster]

I believe the Crows going to SAAFL would be a very sticky result for the SANFL.

Do explain

SANFL clubs are already struggling with player retention due to the cash on offer in some SAAFL grades and in the country.
All of a sudden, a Crows side is in the SAAFL, players head there wanting to play for the Crows.
Crows will have to have a B grade side as well in SAAFL, there's some more players.
SANFL players start thinking that, even if they're not in the Crows, the chance to play under the noses of the Crows and be observed by Crows officials means they consider crossing to a top-flight SAAFL club.
The Crows in the SAAFL sees additional media directed towards that league, eating into SANFL coverage which has already shrunk over the years.
While the Crows also direct valuable funds, which would have gone to the SANFL clubs, towards the SAAFL.
Prestige is a very important part of the SANFL package but that prestige could be significantly reduced by a Crows side taking SANFL standard players to the SAAFL.

Those are all obviously worse case scenarios, but an SANFL side breaking away and trying to join the AFL wasn't a scenario we all thought would happen in 1990 either, was it?

Only problem for these players is they must be on an SANFL clubs list to be drafted. The AFC would like us to believe players will move but in reality unless the AFL changes the rules nothing will change.

Bam

[sjt]

One more thing.
If the Crows could show me ..... and all the SANFL supporters ...... a solid, logical, well planned and presented proposal why and how the Crows joining the SANFL would be a benefit I would support it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all would.

BUT the xxxxing xxxts have not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does that look for you? What benefits do you think are required? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

David Burtenshaw (SANFL fan and Crows GM of Comms)

Hi David

1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.
6) how much does the afl contribute directly to the sanfl clubs each year (excluding afl license dividends)? Is it truly under $1m?
7) how did Rob chapman arrive at 4,000 supporters going to a reserves game - particularly given with four times the population the crowds in Victoria are a quarter of sa? Does chapman think SA fans are that gullible?
how will crows players going to the community be of benefit to an sanfl club
9) how is dropping the salary cap by $20,000 going to make it easier for SA clubs to replace lost afl listed players, retain players and attract quality players.
10) how is "playing to the line", that is making sure an afl player plays finals (if medically sound) against an sanfl club, potentially even their "own" club seen as a positive, for sanfl fans?
11) what current Adelaide players do you believe due to playing sanfl are having hindered development?
12) why wouldn't the sanfl be better off selling the licenses, leasing footy park training facilities to you, deriving income from Adelaide oval, developing west lakes land, increasing its salary cap to improve quality, rather than accept the pittance from the Afc that has been described?
13) why not trial it in the reserves?
14) is the reserves deemed a higher standard than the saafl?
15) if its not a higher standard why do you want top up players from the reserves?
16) is the only positive you can offer, the threat of what might happen if it doesn't proceed?
17) is threatening to try to take sanfl club sponsors if the vote is no, a serious threat?
18) do you think sanfl sponsors would sponsor the crows in the saafl rather than their sanfl side, given they support the sanfl now even with little media exposure?

Just a few simple questions, I'd have a number more. Given the eighteen months of research the club has done and the millions of dollars worth of resources you have, I imagine these answers are easily attainable.

I thank you for communicating on this site and look forward to your response. It would be great to finally get some simple answers, supported by basic facts , rather than the puffery and spin so far been distributed.

Kind regards

SJT
Sanfl supporter (former crows member)

I tried to answer all these but it seems to have disappeared

Maybe three answers per post David? Otherwise it's pretty frustrating going to the effort and it all disappears. Cheers

[once_were_warriors]

tried to answer all these but it seems to have disappeared

Check Triggy's Outlook

Filed under "Tippett"?

Lol , or Rendell

[RB]

Maybe three answers per post David? Otherwise it's pretty frustrating going to the effort and it all disappears. Cheers

Yeah, gotta have the post count in mind.

[dedja]

Give the poor fella a break ... this technology stuff like blogs, forums and stuff is challenging for a journalst who is General Manager of Communications.

FFS ...

[saintal]

One more thing.
If the Crows could show me ..... and all the SANFL supporters ...... a solid, logical, well planned and presented proposal why and how the Crows joining the SANFL would be a benefit I would support it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all would.

BUT the xxxxing xxxts have not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does that look for you? What benefits do you think are required? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

David Burtenshaw (SANFL fan and Crows GM of Comms)

Personally I don't think such a proposal is possible David. You cant change the fact that the new entities entering the league will not have winning as their priority. "Support" team is the language used by Trigg in one interview, as he knows "reserves" is an ugly word. As the now famous Dion Hayman article said "People are not stupid. They know when they are being conned. And two reserves teams operating in a League competition will reduce it to a farce, a competition without a soul."

The only way the Crows will win over the SANFL clubs is through the almighty $$ (figures to this point that have been underwhelming) and scare tactics. The other potential benefits are just fluff and are clouding the major issue. Unfortunately it seems as though the commission is only echoing the crows in their approach.

[LPH]

Give the poor fella a break ... this technology stuff like blogs, forums and stuff is challenging for a journalst who is General Manager of Communications.

FFS ...

[topsywaldron]

As the now famous Dion Hayman article said "People are not stupid. They know when they are being conned. And two reserves teams operating in a League competition will reduce it to a farce, a competition without a soul."

Dion sums up the fatal flaw at the heart of the AFC proposal and that no amount of spin, bluff and bluster can counter.

You'd like to think 40k per year wouldn't counter it either but sadly it appears some club boards are either ludicrously stupid or greedy.

Hi Mr Slaven!

[Pseudo]

Please all parties step back from degrading our sanfl comp and vote yes

wank
wank
wank
...

I've got a better idea. How about you spin on it?

[Pseudo]

Im sure you would never label the pro AFL group as rabble

I agree. "riffraff" would be closer to the mark.

[daysofourlives]

One more thing.
If the Crows could show me ..... and all the SANFL supporters ...... a solid, logical, well planned and presented proposal why and how the Crows joining the SANFL would be a benefit I would support it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all would.

BUT the xxxxing xxxts have not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does that look for you? What benefits do you think are required? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

David Burtenshaw (SANFL fan and Crows GM of Comms)

I think a guarenteed 200k/year for each club would appease most if not all clubs seasonally adjusted to CPI increases for 15 years.
Oh, you can't afford that, toodle off to the ammo's then.
No other reason is required. It's not up to the SANFL clubs to find a compromise, you want to join their league.

I was wondering do you conceed the point that the SANFL clubs can say no like a 8yr old "just because"?

[Apachebulldog]

Hey David you have not go a clue my friend or are you just a stooge from the Crows ????

I suggest you read all the 163 pages of comments on this forum and some of my posts regarding crowd numbers in other state leagues.

I have sent numerous e mails to 5AA sports raising questions but these people have ignored me they have TUNNEL VISION it is called AFL/CROWS

Below my latest e mail this morning to the Crow show

As usual no comment none of these sports presenters have the coljones to discuss issues raised it seems they are all for the reserves what a gutless mob towing the Crow line.

Hey guys you sure are sure sprouting some crap this morning

I have been following the SANFL for over 45 years and like all fans do not want to see it destroyed

Why should the SANFL clubs conform to the whim of the Crows ??????

How does this strengthen the competition when you take away AFL players from current teams ??? this idiotic concept weakens every club so the status quo must remain

You are all kidding yourselves if you think SANFL fans will go and watch AFL reserves no one is interested its all about the main AFL game these days

AFL clubs have reserves in the VFL guess what average crowds 2,000 per game Grand Final crowds less than 15,000

Apart from Geelong have a look at the Bulldogs Saints etc etc etc no benefit to players being in the VFL

Moves are afoot by club members to call meetings to have a say to ensure a NO vote is achieved.

This only benefits the CROWS and no other Club

Why is every one hell bent in destroying the SANFL

Most of the media do not give a stuff about the SANFL you all have tunnel vision and that is AFL the destroyer of all state leagues

Its just a pig in a poke !!!

SO once again

NO AFL IN THE SANFL

[The Sleeping Giant]

One more thing.
If the Crows could show me ..... and all the SANFL supporters ...... a solid, logical, well planned and presented proposal why and how the Crows joining the SANFL would be a benefit I would support it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all would.

BUT the xxxxing xxxts have not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does that look for you? What benefits do you think are required? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

David Burtenshaw (SANFL fan and Crows GM of Comms)

I think a guarenteed 200k/year for each club would appease most if not all clubs seasonally adjusted to CPI increases for 15 years.
Oh, you can't afford that, toodle off to the ammo's then.
No other reason is required. It's not up to the SANFL clubs to find a compromise, you want to join their league.

I was wondering do you conceed the point that the SANFL clubs can say no like a 8yr old "just because"?

200K a year? Why don't we just keep the AFL licenses?

[Apachebulldog]

Hey fellow posters it appears to me we have Crows stooges who have infiltrated our site must be getting pretty desperate i reckon.

[Pseudo]

On another forum, David has posed the following in reference to a national AFL Reserves competition being put in place:

"Have you thought about the consequences of there being another competition at a level above the SANFL?"

David,

Have you thought of the consequence of realising that NOBODY who supports the SANFL would give a flying **** if there was another competition considered to be at a higher level?

We follow the SANFL because it is the SANFL. It is OUR league. If we cared solely about the calibre of the game, we'd all be AFL stooges like the pillocks who follow your team.

[Tassie Blues]

Hey fellow posters it appears to me we have Crows stooges who have infiltrated our site must be getting pretty desperate i reckon.

And I thought this was a public forum for everyone’s point of view.