AFL Reserves Discussion...

[PhilH]

Sorry Jim ... it was meant as a joke, the last of a long line of examples of what Garry's position was within NO AFL IN THE SANFL .when we introduced him...President ?, Co-ordinator ?, organiser ?, .. which he never answered ... so I kept going and asked "rabble rouser?"

Certainly no disrespect was intended towards Garry, pretty sure none was taken.

I think the nature of the questions was asked from that point shows we were respectful in the interview.

At no point did I call the NO AFL IN SANFL group a rabble.

[rod_rooster]

On another forum, David has posed the following in reference to a national AFL Reserves competition being put in place:

"Have you thought about the consequences of there being another competition at a level above the SANFL?"


So he's saying that a reserves comp from the AFL would automatically be above the SANFL comp. Right fair enough if that's his opinion yet it flies in the face of the logic the Crows are using suggesting that the SAAFL is a better alternative to the SANFL Reserves. Going by the logic used in what David said above surely the SANFL Reserves would be a "competition at a level above the" SAAFL.

[tigers34738586]

in a worst case scenario how does a weekly aggregate an extra 1000 0r 2000 of 10000 to 11000 adversely affect comp

How on earth can you even suggest that there will be a rise in crowds..... look at the WAFL look at VFA(now VFL)...you must either be joking or be a crow stooge

[topsywaldron]

love SA footy site but its become a site for the most one sided forum ever created

It's weird that a forum devoted to the SANFL might arc up at its potential destruction isn't it?

[dedja]

Sorry Jim ... it was meant as a joke, the last of a long line of examples of what Garry's position was within NO AFL IN THE SANFL .when we introduced him...President ?, Co-ordinator ?, organiser ?, .. which he never answered ... so I kept going and asked "rabble rouser?"

Certainly no disrespect was intended towards Garry, pretty sure none was taken.

I think the nature of the questions was asked from that point shows we were respectful in the interview.

At no point did I call the NO AFL IN SANFL group a rabble.

Gary is none of the above ... just a very passionate and committed long term SANFL supporter who is prepared to get off his arse to save something worth saving.

You could at least spell his name correctly.

[Dutchy]

BTW, the crows should play A1 next year and prove they can get a supporter base to their games. This will be the ultimate test. If they can draw 3K to the A1 games as an average then they have a case (Plus its free entry isnt it to the A1 games?)

If not, then the SANFL dodges a bullet and one hell of a bluff from the crows. By letting the A1 league have them its a perfect test case of financial modelling.
Hell, we made CDFC and WFC do an apprentice in the SANFL before promoting them years back.

I've made these comments to WAFC officials today - Did they hear them or listen to them - who knows? Only fools rush in...

Thats actually a very good point, I don't see why the SANFL need to rush this decision.

[UK Fan]

Best for comp, I don't care how long you have been a north fan. What I care about is your current allegiance and it is clearly pro-crow. You would have this comp ruined simply for the benefit of your new number one club so don't expect applause from us.

Also wouldn't you'd be happy with my response regarding SANFL improving their stance with a no vote!!!

Why so upset ???

[csbowes]

If some of the posters on here are interested in meeting with the AFC for a civil exchange of thoughts etc, pm me and I'll organise a get together mid-week.

It'll have to be a smallish group as if too many attend it will be hard to keep the meeting focused and potentially beneficial.

[Jim05]

Sorry Jim ... it was meant as a joke, the last of a long line of examples of what Garry's position was within NO AFL IN THE SANFL .when we introduced him...President ?, Co-ordinator ?, organiser ?, .. which he never answered ... so I kept going and asked "rabble rouser?"

Certainly no disrespect was intended towards Garry, pretty sure none was taken.

I think the nature of the questions was asked from that point shows we were respectful in the interview.

At no point did I call the NO AFL IN SANFL group a rabble.

Ok fair enough, I apologise
I do realise it was said in jest but to people who may not be regular listeners or not up to speed with whats going it may of came across differantly.
Anyway well done to Gary who came across as very concise unlike the bumbling, stumbling Trigg

[UK Fan]

BTW, the crows should play A1 next year and prove they can get a supporter base to their games. This will be the ultimate test. If they can draw 3K to the A1 games as an average then they have a case (Plus its free entry isnt it to the A1 games?)

If not, then the SANFL dodges a bullet and one hell of a bluff from the crows. By letting the A1 league have them its a perfect test case of financial modelling.
Hell, we made CDFC and WFC do an apprentice in the SANFL before promoting them years back.

I've made these comments to WAFC officials today - Did they hear them or listen to them - who knows? Only fools rush in...

Thats actually a very good point, I don't see why the SANFL need to rush this decision.

Call their bluff go to Ammos!! They'll be laughing stock of the AFL.

[LPH]

Topsy - the voice of reason.

How come it's such a bad thing to voice opposition to anything.
This is Australia not China or the Middle East - we are allowed alternative viewpoints, aren't we?

The opposition is coming from many of us that don't actually care what happens to AFC or PAFC - surely we are allowed to 'stand up' for our 130+ years old competition. The problem (as I see it) is that the 'Team for All South Australians' is struggling to grasp that they aren't as well received by many Footy Fans, as they expected to be.

I am happy that the NO AFL in the SANFL 'lobby' has managed to cause debate - on this site & throughout Social Media.
It is a good thing - we should have discussion & questions asked of the Crows.

David - How is playing in the SAAFL (in 2014) result in a better outcome for the Crows Reserves Team than playing in the SANFL Reserves?
It is astounding considering your justification of not getting 'good quality opponents' - I would hazzard a guess they will be lesser quality opponents in the SAAFL.

Moreover, (from my perspective, at least) - It is difficult to grasp why the AFC simply expect members/supporters of SANFL Clubs to accept the proposal without any formal debate or consultation. This is THE biggest issue facing our competition since the traumatic happenings of 1990 - why shouldn't there be opposition & opposing views, in order to reach a quality compromise that BENEFITS ALL parties.

Personally, I find the Crows current position (& the manipulation of the mainstream media to 'fall into line' & unerringly support your position) as arrogant & out of touch. Your crowds have been steadily declining since the mid-2000s & I would suggest that many of those who have left your club, are supporters (like many on here) who have become disillusioned with the 'Corporate Package' of the AFL & that the Crows have obviously become.

[adelaidefc]

On another forum, David has posed the following in reference to a national AFL Reserves competition being put in place:

"Have you thought about the consequences of there being another competition at a level above the SANFL?"


So he's saying that a reserves comp from the AFL would automatically be above the SANFL comp. Right fair enough if that's his opinion yet it flies in the face of the logic the Crows are using suggesting that the SAAFL is a better alternative to the SANFL Reserves. Going by the logic used in what David said above surely the SANFL Reserves would be a "competition at a level above the" SAAFL.

It;s not going to happen so it;s probably a waste of time talking about it but an AFL funded reserves competition involving all the AFL clubs would be a be a huge threat to the standing of the SANFL competition. The A1 Ammos is, according to our football and recruiting people, more suitable for the type of competition we want. But as I've said, the Club's clear preference is a league team.

[smac]

The top of the table clash today in div 1 was full of blokes not quite up to it. What development would they offer your players?

[adelaidefc]

One more thing.
If the Crows could show me ..... and all the SANFL supporters ...... a solid, logical, well planned and presented proposal why and how the Crows joining the SANFL would be a benefit I would support it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all would.

BUT the xxxxing xxxts have not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does that look for you? What benefits do you think are required? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

David Burtenshaw (SANFL fan and Crows GM of Comms)

Hi David

1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.
6) how much does the afl contribute directly to the sanfl clubs each year (excluding afl license dividends)? Is it truly under $1m?
7) how did Rob chapman arrive at 4,000 supporters going to a reserves game - particularly given with four times the population the crowds in Victoria are a quarter of sa? Does chapman think SA fans are that gullible?
how will crows players going to the community be of benefit to an sanfl club
9) how is dropping the salary cap by $20,000 going to make it easier for SA clubs to replace lost afl listed players, retain players and attract quality players.
10) how is "playing to the line", that is making sure an afl player plays finals (if medically sound) against an sanfl club, potentially even their "own" club seen as a positive, for sanfl fans?
11) what current Adelaide players do you believe due to playing sanfl are having hindered development?
12) why wouldn't the sanfl be better off selling the licenses, leasing footy park training facilities to you, deriving income from Adelaide oval, developing west lakes land, increasing its salary cap to improve quality, rather than accept the pittance from the Afc that has been described?
13) why not trial it in the reserves?
14) is the reserves deemed a higher standard than the saafl?
15) if its not a higher standard why do you want top up players from the reserves?
16) is the only positive you can offer, the threat of what might happen if it doesn't proceed?
17) is threatening to try to take sanfl club sponsors if the vote is no, a serious threat?
18) do you think sanfl sponsors would sponsor the crows in the saafl rather than their sanfl side, given they support the sanfl now even with little media exposure?

Just a few simple questions, I'd have a number more. Given the eighteen months of research the club has done and the millions of dollars worth of resources you have, I imagine these answers are easily attainable.

I thank you for communicating on this site and look forward to your response. It would be great to finally get some simple answers, supported by basic facts , rather than the puffery and spin so far been distributed.

Kind regards

SJT
Sanfl supporter (former crows member)

I tried to answer all these but it seems to have disappeared

[JK]

The AFL and its clubs have wanted and tried to direct the SANFL toward becoming nothing but a feeder competition for years, and now the SANFL reserves doesn't work for them because it's full of teenagers. Alanis could write a song about it.

[JK]

One more thing.
If the Crows could show me ..... and all the SANFL supporters ...... a solid, logical, well planned and presented proposal why and how the Crows joining the SANFL would be a benefit I would support it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all would.

BUT the xxxxing xxxts have not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does that look for you? What benefits do you think are required? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

David Burtenshaw (SANFL fan and Crows GM of Comms)

Hi David

1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.
6) how much does the afl contribute directly to the sanfl clubs each year (excluding afl license dividends)? Is it truly under $1m?
7) how did Rob chapman arrive at 4,000 supporters going to a reserves game - particularly given with four times the population the crowds in Victoria are a quarter of sa? Does chapman think SA fans are that gullible?
how will crows players going to the community be of benefit to an sanfl club
9) how is dropping the salary cap by $20,000 going to make it easier for SA clubs to replace lost afl listed players, retain players and attract quality players.
10) how is "playing to the line", that is making sure an afl player plays finals (if medically sound) against an sanfl club, potentially even their "own" club seen as a positive, for sanfl fans?
11) what current Adelaide players do you believe due to playing sanfl are having hindered development?
12) why wouldn't the sanfl be better off selling the licenses, leasing footy park training facilities to you, deriving income from Adelaide oval, developing west lakes land, increasing its salary cap to improve quality, rather than accept the pittance from the Afc that has been described?
13) why not trial it in the reserves?
14) is the reserves deemed a higher standard than the saafl?
15) if its not a higher standard why do you want top up players from the reserves?
16) is the only positive you can offer, the threat of what might happen if it doesn't proceed?
17) is threatening to try to take sanfl club sponsors if the vote is no, a serious threat?
18) do you think sanfl sponsors would sponsor the crows in the saafl rather than their sanfl side, given they support the sanfl now even with little media exposure?

Just a few simple questions, I'd have a number more. Given the eighteen months of research the club has done and the millions of dollars worth of resources you have, I imagine these answers are easily attainable.

I thank you for communicating on this site and look forward to your response. It would be great to finally get some simple answers, supported by basic facts , rather than the puffery and spin so far been distributed.

Kind regards

SJT
Sanfl supporter (former crows member)

I tried to answer all these but it seems to have disappeared

Check Triggy's Outlook

[rod_rooster]

On another forum, David has posed the following in reference to a national AFL Reserves competition being put in place:

"Have you thought about the consequences of there being another competition at a level above the SANFL?"


So he's saying that a reserves comp from the AFL would automatically be above the SANFL comp. Right fair enough if that's his opinion yet it flies in the face of the logic the Crows are using suggesting that the SAAFL is a better alternative to the SANFL Reserves. Going by the logic used in what David said above surely the SANFL Reserves would be a "competition at a level above the" SAAFL.

It;s not going to happen so it;s probably a waste of time talking about it but an AFL funded reserves competition involving all the AFL clubs would be a be a huge threat to the standing of the SANFL competition. The A1 Ammos is, according to our football and recruiting people, more suitable for the type of competition we want. But as I've said, the Club's clear preference is a league team.

If that's the case i'd suggest a rethink of who you have as your football and recruiting people. The fact the Crows are no good is not the current structure (remember you guys went back to back and even Port won a flag under it), it's probably got a lot more to do with the fact your football and recruiting people think the SAAFL would be better preparation than the SANFL reserves.

[smac]

tried to answer all these but it seems to have disappeared

Check Triggy's Outlook

Filed under "Tippett"?

[rod_rooster]

One more thing.
If the Crows could show me ..... and all the SANFL supporters ...... a solid, logical, well planned and presented proposal why and how the Crows joining the SANFL would be a benefit I would support it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all would.

BUT the xxxxing xxxts have not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does that look for you? What benefits do you think are required? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

David Burtenshaw (SANFL fan and Crows GM of Comms)

Hi David

1)If you could show how the entry of two afl clubs in the wafl has benefited the other wafl teams?
2) how much have crowds increased at wafl games?
3) how has media interest increased in that competition and how has this translated to gate takings and commercial deals for the wafl clubs?
4) financially how have the wafl clubs benefited and how much would the sanfl clubs benefit , is the financial offer on the table comparable?
5) will the extra cost to the crows of having the proposed reserves side, translate to lower distributions to the clubs.
6) how much does the afl contribute directly to the sanfl clubs each year (excluding afl license dividends)? Is it truly under $1m?
7) how did Rob chapman arrive at 4,000 supporters going to a reserves game - particularly given with four times the population the crowds in Victoria are a quarter of sa? Does chapman think SA fans are that gullible?
how will crows players going to the community be of benefit to an sanfl club
9) how is dropping the salary cap by $20,000 going to make it easier for SA clubs to replace lost afl listed players, retain players and attract quality players.
10) how is "playing to the line", that is making sure an afl player plays finals (if medically sound) against an sanfl club, potentially even their "own" club seen as a positive, for sanfl fans?
11) what current Adelaide players do you believe due to playing sanfl are having hindered development?
12) why wouldn't the sanfl be better off selling the licenses, leasing footy park training facilities to you, deriving income from Adelaide oval, developing west lakes land, increasing its salary cap to improve quality, rather than accept the pittance from the Afc that has been described?
13) why not trial it in the reserves?
14) is the reserves deemed a higher standard than the saafl?
15) if its not a higher standard why do you want top up players from the reserves?
16) is the only positive you can offer, the threat of what might happen if it doesn't proceed?
17) is threatening to try to take sanfl club sponsors if the vote is no, a serious threat?
18) do you think sanfl sponsors would sponsor the crows in the saafl rather than their sanfl side, given they support the sanfl now even with little media exposure?

Just a few simple questions, I'd have a number more. Given the eighteen months of research the club has done and the millions of dollars worth of resources you have, I imagine these answers are easily attainable.

I thank you for communicating on this site and look forward to your response. It would be great to finally get some simple answers, supported by basic facts , rather than the puffery and spin so far been distributed.

Kind regards

SJT
Sanfl supporter (former crows member)

I tried to answer all these but it seems to have disappeared

Well have another crack then.

[UK Fan]

On another forum, David has posed the following in reference to a national AFL Reserves competition being put in place:

"Have you thought about the consequences of there being another competition at a level above the SANFL?"


So he's saying that a reserves comp from the AFL would automatically be above the SANFL comp. Right fair enough if that's his opinion yet it flies in the face of the logic the Crows are using suggesting that the SAAFL is a better alternative to the SANFL Reserves. Going by the logic used in what David said above surely the SANFL Reserves would be a "competition at a level above the" SAAFL.

It;s not going to happen so it;s probably a waste of time talking about it but an AFL funded reserves competition involving all the AFL clubs would be a be a huge threat to the standing of the SANFL competition. The A1 Ammos is, according to our football and recruiting people, more suitable for the type of competition we want. But as I've said, the Club's clear preference is a league team.

The sanfl has gone through worse threats, such as the formation of your employers. If you think current sanfl attendances will be affected by an afl reserves league I suggest you hire new researchers. We have our own fans. In fact the biggest threat to the league is the potential loss of its supporter base due this apparent need to pamper the crows.

I would also respectively suggest your football department is hopelessly inadequate if you think the saafl is more suitable for afl listed players than the sanfl reserves.

Also don't play the concern for the sanfl card. You are in it for yourselves, not us. Nothing wrong with it but don't try to be feigning concern for the league. You want independence remember?