AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Armytank]

The Power really has destroyed the Port tradition

please explain what's been destroyed?

The Port Adelaide Football Club was once a club to be feared, loathed, hated. It was to be admired for its success, its ability to continue to haunt you in its never say die attitude. Port Adelaide always triumphed in the face of adversity. It appeared to embrace its "school of hard knocks" culture without a chip on its shoulder and used it as an internal drive for success.

Now the magpies are seen as a basket case B grade half arsed club which may or may not be associated with an AFL team that claims they are one in the same or some such.

Quite frankly the message has been lost on anyone outside of the black and white supporter base. I no longer have the deep seeded hatred and loathing of the black and white prison bars because quite frankly I don't believe it is the same club. The Power tried to pinch that ethos, then completely **** it up.

The Magpies aren't to be feared anymore, they are to be pitied. It used to be there was "no SANFL without Port", but now I believe it should be "there will be no SANFL with Port".

[beenreal]

once again Beenreal whats the benefit to the other 8 SANFL clubs?

None what soever, but isn't that the Port Adelaide way, so long as Port see a advantage to them selves the rest can go **** themselves!!

Karma will be a bitch..................................

Of course its looking for an advantage for themselves. Why wouldnt they be? Or do you expect football clubs to sit on their hands dealing with the status quo just because thats how its done, never to look for improvements or advantages over their opposition?

Agreed, we know Ports track record of only considering themselves, that's why I'm disappointed in the other SANFL clubs allowing the recent transfer of the Port Power players to Port Magpies. I'm not sure why they rolled over so easily. We all know when they say they won't gain an unfair advantage etc. they're lying.

And yet the recent transfer of McKernan from South to Glenelg, while still playing League went by without any semblance of hysteria.

This is not about what is best for the SANFL, this is about giving the SANFL's major income providers, the two AFL clubs, their best opportunity for success, which in turn will generate more income.

I enjoy going to SANFL games and attend more than just games involving Port Adelaide. But the arguments mounted here and across the SANFL spectrum epitomise the NIMBY mentality that afflicts this state.

A pathological, almost hysterical aversion to change.

[Aerie]

Can you not see from another perspective? The integrity of the SANFL is important. A Port reserves team playing in the SANFL league would destroy that integrity. Keith Thomas wants a Reserves team in the SANFL league.

If Crows come out and say the same thing, they would be thought of the same way.

Thats fine. But the numerous posts here calling Thomas a clown and comical and "ive lost all respect for him" for daring to be open and transparent about what he wants for his football club is pathetic. Hes putting it all out there for the entire SA footballing public to see. I commend him for putting it all out there. Whats Adelaides CEO doing at the moment?

Yep, agree with you with this re good on him for putting it out there and in lots of ways trying to get the best for his club. It's just disappointing it is at the expense of the SANFL and the other 8 clubs.

[on the rails]

If the Power got their wish as Thomas wants and that is to turn the Magpies League Team into the Power Reserves then the Crows will want the same but how can they unless they look for an alignment or takeover of a present SANFL club otherwise it is not an even playing field for the Crows Reserves vs. the Power Reserves.

So let's say the Crows "align" / takeover another SANFL Club (and I am not pre-empting or suggesting any club in particular), we will have 2 teams in a 9 team SANFL League comp fielding AFL players for starters wheres the other 7 clubs would have no AFL players. You would also have players your club has developed through the junior ranks or recruited suddenly playing against your own club because they have been drafted by an Adelaide based AFL side? The top up players (those current SANFL only players at the Magpies and whatever club the Crows align with) would also have an advantage in terms of conditioning, training facilities, support etc. that the other 7 clubs fielding SANFL listed players only wouldn't have!

Also how would the Salary Cap work under this model for the SANFL clubs plus the AFL Reserves Clubs? The AFL Teams would have a big advantage re recruiting SANFL only top up players as it would appear to a prospective recruit to be a better option going to an AFL run club with it's training programs, facilities etc. as I pointed out earlier as opposed to a SANFL run club to enhance their draft prospects. The AFL clubs would also have the additional $$$ to short circuit or work around any Salary Cap impositions that may be forced on them to protect the other 7 SANFL clubs. How the League could work out Salary Cap %'s for AFL players playing in the SANFL Team and the balance to the non AFL players at these two clubs would prove to be a nightmare and would be open to cheating and would we trust the Crows let alone the PAFC re integrity?

There is no fairness in that model and to be honest it would be a mess which goes to prove the selfishness of the AFL clubs who are trying to push their own agendas and they don't give a fat rats clacker about the SANFL as a whole nor the integrity of the comp.

[Macca19]

If this were to happen the biggest factor that would determine the winner of the SANFL premiership would be the number of injuries to Power listed players. If Port have very few injuries, they would be likely to easily win the SANFL premiership, but if they have many injuries, then would likely to be thrashed. How can a competition have any real credibility if the winner is largely determined by the injuries to a team that is part of a different competition?

I could not disagree more. How did Sturt go last year with a million Crows players on their list? Pretty much all who were in excellent form all year (bar Kerridge, who was still ok)?

Youre telling me this team would win the SANFL premiership this year:

F: Hitchcock Shaw Salter
HF: Young D. Stewart Ah Chee
C: Colquhoun Cassisi Pfeiffer
HB: Blee Hombsch Hoskin
B: D Butcher Clurey Stevenson
R: Renouf Thomas Ebert
I: Ah Chee, Newton, Butcher

[on the rails]

And yet the recent transfer of McKernan from South to Glenelg, while still playing League went by without any semblance of hysteria.

You can't be serious in comparing the McKernan transfer with the lying deceptive reasons Newton / Young were moved to the Magpies?

For starters South were happy for him to leave based on where they saw their list and how he was or was not performing and this obviously was with the blessing of the Crows so the best deal was worked out. Glenelg could have said no, they were not forced to take him. He was not forced out from his "host" SANFL club without any say from the host point of view such was the case with Newton and Young!

My god, talk about being dilusional and clutching at straws!

[Macca19]

And yet the recent transfer of McKernan from South to Glenelg, while still playing League went by without any semblance of hysteria.

Spot on. How many reserves games did Mckernan ever play for South? What disadvantage was Mckernan getting? None. No uproar about that move whatsoever. Yet Port moving Ben Newton created more havoc than Ports 1990 AFL bid.

[areaman]

This is not about what is best for the SANFL, this is about giving the SANFL's major income providers, the two AFL clubs, their best opportunity for success, which in turn will generate more income.

Imagine it is mid 1992 and the Crows had put a proposal to the SANFL to have a reserves team in the SANFL in 1993.

Port Adelaide would have gone off it's rocker. None of you Port people on here advocating what you are saying now would have been supportive of it. We would have heard all the arguments about the integrity of the SANFL being compromised as well.

The only difference between that scenario and now is that Port are in the AFL and see themselves as above the SANFL.

Now way known you'd have supported that by reasoning that a stronger Crows generates success which generates funds for the SANFL.

Trying to justify your self interest mixed with pretensions of caring for the greater good is patronising rubbish.

[RB]

(I know what will be said)

Did people see the SANFL as compromised when Woodville and Centrals joined?

Did people see the SANFL as compromised then Woodville and West Torrens merged?

Did people see the SANFL as compromised when Glenelg joined?

Did people see the SANFL as compromised when Sturt joined?

Did people see the SANFL as compromised West Adelaide and West Torrens joined?

etc. etc.

[RB]

A pathological, almost hysterical aversion to change.

If I shot myself in the head my life would change. Forgive me for being averse to doing so.

[on the rails]

Youre telling me this team would win the SANFL premiership this year:

F: Hitchcock Shaw Salter
HF: Young D. Stewart Ah Chee
C: Colquhoun Cassisi Pfeiffer
HB: Blee Hombsch Hoskin
B: D Butcher Clurey Stevenson
R: Renouf Thomas Ebert
I: Ah Chee, Newton, Butcher

Well how do you know they wouldn't?

Under the proposed PAFC model Thomas has referred to, the PAFC not only would have the likes of those players you have listed above (you forgot Andrew Moore), they would also have the pick of the best Magpie only players from their list to also field in this Power "Reserves" side playing in the League Comp. So let's add Mickeljohn, Summerton, Gray etc. who are from the "cream" of the Magpies and suddenly it is a very strong side.

By the same token add the above list to any other SANFL League Squad and tell me it wouldn't improve it's chances dramatically??? For starters we have seen at North that Stewart is an excellent SANFL player, Blee has done alright, Moore is very good and I would be happy if Cassisi was available every week, Salter would be a cert along with Stevenson, Renouf, Thomas and Ebert. Do I need to go on?

So how is that fair giving that advantage to a club in a comp that is supposed to have an even playing field? Integrity..PIGS ARSE!

And what do you suggest the Crows do re their team? You can bet they would want the same concessions!

[Booney]

Imagine it is mid 1992

For some on here it isn't an imagination.

[Macca19]

Imagine it is mid 1992 and the Crows had put a proposal to the SANFL to have a reserves team in the SANFL in 1993.

Port Adelaide would have gone off it's rocker. None of you Port people on here advocating what you are saying now would have been supportive of it. We would have heard all the arguments about the integrity of the SANFL being compromised as well.

The only difference between that scenario and now is that Port are in the AFL and see themselves as above the SANFL.

Now way known you'd have supported that by reasoning that a stronger Crows generates success which generates funds for the SANFL.

Trying to justify your self interest mixed with pretensions of caring for the greater good is patronising rubbish.

You talk like the Crows arent part of this at all. They have been just as vocal about getting a reserves team, if not more so than Port has. As soon as Sanderson took over he's been on about a reserves team like a rash.

Im not sure how you can say with any sort of certainty at all how clubs would have reacted in 1992.

[Ecky]

Youre telling me this team would win the SANFL premiership this year:

F: Hitchcock Shaw Salter
HF: Young D. Stewart Ah Chee
C: Colquhoun Cassisi Pfeiffer
HB: Blee Hombsch Hoskin
B: D Butcher Clurey Stevenson
R: Renouf Thomas Ebert
I: Ah Chee, Newton, Butcher

But isn't the key reason for having the Power reserves play together that this would improve their performance and make them better footballers? So using that logic, those players would improve, thus making that team more POWERful (hooray for puns!) than it looks at the moment. Plus as OTR says, there are likely to be 5 or so top-up players who are stronger than the weakest 5 in that team.

[Ecky]

You talk like the Crows arent part of this at all. They have been just as vocal about getting a reserves team, if not more so than Port has. As soon as Sanderson took over he's been on about a reserves team like a rash.

But there have been thousands of posts on this forum that have been very critical of the Crows push for a reserves team too. Do you think that Centurion's banner was only done in response to Keith Thomas's comments yesterday?

[areaman]

Imagine it is mid 1992 and the Crows had put a proposal to the SANFL to have a reserves team in the SANFL in 1993.

Port Adelaide would have gone off it's rocker. None of you Port people on here advocating what you are saying now would have been supportive of it. We would have heard all the arguments about the integrity of the SANFL being compromised as well.

The only difference between that scenario and now is that Port are in the AFL and see themselves as above the SANFL.

Now way known you'd have supported that by reasoning that a stronger Crows generates success which generates funds for the SANFL.

Trying to justify your self interest mixed with pretensions of caring for the greater good is patronising rubbish.

You talk like the Crows arent part of this at all. They have been just as vocal about getting a reserves team, if not more so than Port has. As soon as Sanderson took over he's been on about a reserves team like a rash.

Im not sure how you can say with any sort of certainty at all how clubs would have reacted in 1992.

The Crows are part of it and I have been having the same argument/discussion with other Crows fans too. But there aren't any Crows fans on this forum talking about it from a Crows perspective arguing for a reserves team in the SANFL league competition.

As for my imaginary 1992 scenario - it would take a big imagination to think that Port Adelaide (and other clubs - at that time Neil Craig's head would have exploded) would have accepted it. Just imagine Scott Hodges lining up for the Crows reserves against Port at Alberton.....

[Mr Beefy]

I thought people didn't want them in because they wouldn't be trying to win the flag but now I read it's because they will be too powerful.

[Macca19]

Youre telling me this team would win the SANFL premiership this year:

F: Hitchcock Shaw Salter
HF: Young D. Stewart Ah Chee
C: Colquhoun Cassisi Pfeiffer
HB: Blee Hombsch Hoskin
B: D Butcher Clurey Stevenson
R: Renouf Thomas Ebert
I: Ah Chee, Newton, Butcher

Well how do you know they wouldn't?

Under the proposed PAFC model Thomas has referred to, the PAFC not only would have the likes of those players you have listed above (you forgot Andrew Moore), they would also have the pick of the best Magpie only players from their list to also field in this Power "Reserves" side playing in the League Comp. So let's add Mickeljohn, Summerton, Gray etc. who are from the "cream" of the Magpies and suddenly it is a very strong side.

By the same token add the above list to any other SANFL League Squad and tell me it wouldn't improve it's chances dramatically??? For starters we have seen at North that Stewart is an excellent SANFL player, Blee has done alright, Moore is very good and I would be happy if Cassisi was available every week, Salter would be a cert along with Stevenson, Renouf, Thomas and Ebert. Do I need to go on?

So how is that fair giving that advantage to a club in a comp that is supposed to have an even playing field? Integrity..PIGS ARSE!

And what do you suggest the Crows do re their team? You can bet they would want the same concessions!

Do you really think that the likes of Meiklejohn, Summerton, Gray etc. would stay in this situation? Unless there are restrictions on the amount of AFL players allowed to play league at any one time like the VFL, then its hardly going to be a situation where its just 20 players moving to the exact same sanfl squad. A lot of players would leave as their opportunities would have diminished, not to mention their pay packets.

If there is a concern about it then put recruiting restrictions on. The two AFL clubs cant recruit past AFL players. "Top up" players must be 21 or under. Only allowed x amount of recruits from other SANFL clubs per year. Theres ways to get around it.

As for the constant question of "what will this bring the SANFL?" (not that I should be debating this).

Say 10% of all Crows and PA members decide to go back to the SANFL to watch their reserves play. This could happen. Thats another 9000 or so every week going back, paying money to go to SANFL games. Thats 180,000 more people per year. Approximately $2m+ getting put back into the SANFL coffers from people that may otherwise, would not be bothered going to SANFL games. Surely this should be considered a good thing? And again, make it attractive to SANFL clubs. All SANFL clubs playing the two SANFL clubs get to keep the gate takings, either home or away. More money going into the SANFL clubs.

Would SANFL clubs lose supporters? Maybe they would, im not sure. But it would also create bigger blockbuster games. How many people would a Adelaide v Port SANFL game get, of which all money goes back to the SANFL? What about a Crows v Norwood SANFL game on a Friday night at the Parade? You wouldnt be able to move.

I think there are clear negatives, but also some clear positives that people here arent prepared to think about. Then again, i'd rather there be an AFL reserves competition.

[Pseudo]

That Keith Thomas letter has made me the angriest I have been with Port since the 1992 Grand Final (and before that the various events of 1990)!

A similar situation would be if the Glenelg CEO made a statement that we deserve to have a much higher salary cap than everyone else simply because we want to win more premierships than everyone else! How is that fair?

It might not be fair, but it still wouldn't help.

[Booney]

I thought people didn't want them in because they wouldn't be trying to win the flag but now I read it's because they will be too powerful.

Well, you cant have it both ways.