National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Hazydog » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:27 pm

There were 3 reasons why the clubs didn't want to participate.

1. Thought it would impact their chances to win the SANFL premiership
2. The prize money wasn't enough.
3. They were concerned the competition was just being used to give exposure to GWS
.


1. Fair point - but could that be overcome with some innovative and flexibile programming of the SANFL season?

2. $40K or $50K is not insignificant income for the majority of clubs. (Yes Wedge - I know it's only pocket money to the Roosters.)

3. Garbage. The GWS would more than likely be knocked out in the first couple of rounds and at best will be in this comp for one year!
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby PhilH » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:32 pm

Looking at the schedule close it is a strange one.

Game 1 - Morningside v NT Thunder
- interesting launch, they already play each other twice per year in the AFL Q comp.

Game 2 - Swan Dist v Northern Bullants
- 2 grandfinalists from strong comps in the first round

Game 3 - North Ballarat
Game 4 - Central District
Does the mean the teams most of us would have as the #1 & #2 seeds will play in a QUARTER FINAL!!!

Game 7 - Eagles v Eagles ... should lead to some great commentary that one.
Game 8 - Norwood
Does this mean that Norwood and Eagles would meet in a 1/4 final. Hope its not interstate!

If it was me I would
- switch Northern Bullants for Williamstown
- switch East Coast Eagles for GWS

That would put my top 4 seeds as
Game 1-2 - Swan Dist (WA Prem)
Game 3-4 - Central Dist (SA Prem)
Game 5-6 - Northern Bullants (VIC Prem)
Game 7-8 - GWS / Norwood / Eagles (Best ofthe Rest)
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby beenreal » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:34 pm

Someone posted earlier about moving further down the ladder to find participants. I hope Port Adelaide put their hand up, I'll take any opportunity to see the Prison Bars on a National Stage.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby PhilH » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:46 pm

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/champions-league-is-go/story-fn525un5-1225968363994

The competition is on.

My reading of Kym Morgan's article is that the top 3 SANFL clubs get an invite then if they decline a club lower down the list gets an invite until the 3 SANFL slots are filled.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby whufc » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:48 pm

PhilH wrote:http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/champions-league-is-go/story-fn525un5-1225968363994

The competition is on.

My reading of Kym Morgan's article is that the top 3 SANFL clubs get an invite then if they decline a club lower down the list gets an invite until the 3 SANFL slots are filled.


competition is then automatically a micky mouse comp which is pointless just giving the GWS a chance to be exposed on the national stage.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Hazydog » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:02 pm

just giving the GWS a chance to be exposed on the national stage
.

When you say exposed do you mean in the context that their team of kids, Nick Lower & an NRL player being pumped by Williamstown will "expose" them as rubbish?
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Royal City » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:11 pm

beenreal wrote:Someone posted earlier about moving further down the ladder to find participants. I hope Port Adelaide put their hand up, I'll take any opportunity to see the Prison Bars on a National Stage.


Port Adelaide and an undeserved charity spot? You'd never hear of it :?
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby whufc » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:13 pm

Hazydog wrote:
just giving the GWS a chance to be exposed on the national stage
.

When you say exposed do you mean in the context that their team of kids, Nick Lower & an NRL player being pumped by Williamstown will "expose" them as rubbish?


more they will get exposure on National t.v before playing in the AFL, would you watch that match.

after chatting to a mate today we are both slightly dissapointed Central wont be taking part in this comp from an entertainment point of view.

but reality was Central were never going to be a part of this comp, Kris Grant has been against any outside competition / games since our decade of dominance began.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby nickname » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:02 pm

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but another problem inherent with this comp is the Norwood example. A team that finishes in the top three one season may bear little resemblance to, and be nowhere near the quality of, the team that runs out the next year because of the drafts and retirements, so those people wanting it to be an indicator of the relative strengths of each club competition could be regularly disappointed.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Harry the Horse » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:13 pm

nickname wrote:Apologies if this has been mentioned before but another problem inherent with this comp is the Norwood example. A team that finishes in the top three one season may bear little resemblance to, and be nowhere near the quality of, the team that runs out the next year because of the drafts and retirements, so those people wanting it to be an indicator of the relative strengths of each club competition could be regularly disappointed.


True although that's been the case since Adam was a boy. Glenelg - grand finalists in 1982 qualified for 1983 Sterling Cup or whatever it was ...
We lost our first 8 games that year and then had to front up against Geelong from memory.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby SpionKopster » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:39 pm

nickname wrote:Apologies if this has been mentioned before but another problem inherent with this comp is the Norwood example. A team that finishes in the top three one season may bear little resemblance to, and be nowhere near the quality of, the team that runs out the next year because of the drafts and retirements, so those people wanting it to be an indicator of the relative strengths of each club competition could be regularly disappointed.


That happens every single year in the European Champions League, where does the indicating of who is the best start and finish?

Another thing, Glenelg clearly in the top 2 best teams throughout the minor round, are they not worthy of participating in this?

They'll probably get a chance now if they want to participate. Hey your club isn't out of the reckoning now either.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby nickname » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:06 pm

Yeah, frightening prospect that the rest of the country could get to watch us kick 2 goals in a game.
Still, if we have to watch some of the slop the AFL dishes up, they can watch some of ours.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby CUTTERMAN » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:52 pm

While I thought it was a good idea at first, after reading the article in todays 'Tiser I think the whole thing stinks.
Token prize money and nearly every game played as a curtain raiser to the AFL. I'd be telling Mr Fathead that if he wants anything to do with it, to come back with more prize money and some respect for the people who support these teams.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby JK » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:54 pm

Hazydog wrote:
just giving the GWS a chance to be exposed on the national stage
.

When you say exposed do you mean in the context that their team of kids, Nick Lower & an NRL player being pumped by Williamstown will "expose" them as rubbish?


Nick Lower??
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Hazydog » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:59 pm

My apologies :oops: Can we substitute Giles for Lower? Either way they would be a weak side and likely be well beaten by Williamstown
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Dogmatic » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:38 pm

nickname wrote:Apologies if this has been mentioned before but another problem inherent with this comp is the Norwood example. A team that finishes in the top three one season may bear little resemblance to, and be nowhere near the quality of, the team that runs out the next year because of the drafts and retirements, so those people wanting it to be an indicator of the relative strengths of each club competition could be regularly disappointed.

The same principles apply for the opposition.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Jim05 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:38 pm

Meaningless and useless. Why do we want to see sanfl sides pump wafl and other states sides. The wafl premiers wouldnt finish top 5 in sanfl and the queensland sides would be bottom in sanfl reserves.
I will not pay $30 to watch this.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby StrayDog » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:59 pm

Sojourner wrote:
Mr Fuller wrote:U18s would be all we need to smash the opposition. Seriously WWT vs the East Coast Eagles??? Our juniors would destroy them. In fact the only teams that might get close to a full strength Norwood/Centrals/Eagles might be a VFL team and I would still predit a 10 goal loss.


Clearly the sides out of WA must really be frightened of playing the best players in the SANFL :roll: - Even Tasmania with a minority population compared to SA flogged the SANFL last time they played!

Match Scores
WAFL 3.0 7.4 7.7 12.10 (82)
SANFL 4.3 5.4 8.8 12.9 (81)

Apologies for going off topic somewhat, however:-


That Tasmania vs SANFL (Hobart, 1995) scoreline was 84 vs 99 - hardly a "flogging", and was described as an embarrassment at the time. Might be wrong but I reckon that's the only time they've played each other since the early '70s.

FWIW, I've noticed that the 2009 WA v SA result has been used (in isolation) before over the last 18 months to make points relating to the state of the SANFL, particularly in relation to the other state leagues. Seemingly forgotten is the SANFL's 16 goal pantsing of the VFL just a year earlier.

Perhaps worth noting that the WAFL have been flogged by an aggregate of almost 30 goals by the VFL in their 2007 and 2010 "matches".

The WAFL haven't won in Adelaide since the early '90s.


As I posted in October....

The last two WAFL vs SANFL games have been relatively close for sure.


The WAFL vs SANFL since the WAFL's last (14 point) win in Adelaide:-

Code: Select all

1996   Inter-league    Perth       SA    15   20   110     WA    6    9    45     65 pts
1998   Inter-league    Adelaide    SA    17   13   115     WA    10   10   70     45 pts
2000   Inter-league    Adelaide    SA    15   17   107     WA    8    17    65     42 pts
2003   Inter-league    Fremantle   SA    17   16   118     WA    8   10    58     60 pts
 
2006   Inter-league    Adelaide    SA    14   14   98     WA    12    9    81     17 pts
2009   Inter-League    Perth       WA    12   10   82     SA     12   9    81     1 pt


Source: http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/intersta ... o_2004.htm



For what it's worth, a "Premiership Table" between the three main mainland state leagues from 1996 to 2010.

Code: Select all

      P    W    L   D    F    A       %
                     
SA    11   9   2   0   1204   901   57.20
Vic   8    4   4   0    861   751   53.41
WA    9    1   8   0    577   990   36.82


Mr Fuller wrote:
The difference is that the other competitions lack depth. A state team draws the best couple of players from each club into the team so it hides the quality of the rest of the competiton.

The best players in the WAFL/VFL may be comparable against the SANFL but quality dies off much quicker than it does in the SANFL. I have lived in WA for 4 years and noticed this was the biggest contrast.

Seemingly more apparently with the WAFL than the VFL. Apply the omission of AFL listed players in these games however you may - most particularly with the current VFL.

One thing's for certain - individual results shouldn't be taken in isolation.
Last edited by StrayDog on Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby fester69 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:02 pm

Jim05 wrote:Meaningless and useless. Why do we want to see sanfl sides pump wafl and other states sides. The wafl premiers wouldnt finish top 5 in sanfl and the queensland sides would be bottom in sanfl reserves.
I will not pay $30 to watch this.



I'll pay airfares, acom PLUS the $30 to watch Norwood play, wherever, whenever. Road Trip will be great fun, however if my Club decides it will hamper our effort for a SANFL Premiership then I will support my Club 100%. After all, a SANFL Premiership is what I want more than anything!!!
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby StrayDog » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 pm

fester69 wrote:I'll pay airfares, acom PLUS the $30 to watch Norwood play, wherever, whenever. Road Trip will be great fun, however if my Club decides it will hamper our effort for a SANFL Premiership then I will support my Club 100%. After all, a SANFL Premiership is what I want more than anything!!!

Pretty much my attitude as well.
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