Under19, Under18, Under17 ??

[Peterxtc]

Disaster

[redandblack]

*sigh*

everychance one of our 18 yo reserves project players will miss out on our final 21 on Sunday...

Luckily this year he can drop back to the 19s, next year....

He could either be included in the 6 overage players in the 18's or play Reserves.

Next non-argument?

[whatever]

redandblack I think you have missed his point.

[am Bays]

Ahh was waiting for that reply

When you bring up several kids at the age of 17 from the country it is not possible to see all their development in one year - right now our 19s is full of 18 years olds (most of them country kids) due to good injury management in teh 1s and 2s - only four players not available due to injuries in the club ATM.

Some kids are not fully developed at Glenelg after 15 months - still learning what it is to be a dedicated athlete and how to get the most out of their skills. It would seem a shame to see them drop out of the system as we would be forced to do right now if it was an U/18 comp in 2008.

As you know R&B it is a big jump from senior country footy to U/19s - so it is not a lack of ability that often sees kids drop out it is their lack preparation. One of those kids is the brother of a league player so he has the skills but it his attitude and training ethic that needs working on. Hmm where will he learn that best - at a league club or an SFL/Amateur club...

Anyone who thinks having talented 18 yos playing footy a metropolitan clubs compared to league clubs is good for their development has rocks in their head.

Right now at Glenelg we only have 3 U/19s (Holmes, Sveldorf and Carey) other than those on AFl lists worthy of higher grade selection - and don't worry we have made some harsh calls on some 19 -21 years olds recently too. Why because we know the longer you can keep the 19-21 year olds in club - within reason the more they learn about what it is to play good footy and the more chance they have of becoming good league players (Allan, Mules and Pannozzo to name but a few).

Centrals haven't won 6/8 flags through good recruiting only they also have had good juniors too who they have developed post U/19s.

[G]

It was taken to the vote and passed so how about a few clubs stop bitching and complaining and accept the majority decision.
If in a few years it seems to be going pear shaped, bring it up again for another vote.

[Big Phil]

Ahh was waiting for that reply

When you bring up several kids at the age of 17 from the country it is not possible to see all their development in one year - right now our 19s is full of 18 years olds (most of them country kids) due to good injury management in teh 1s and 2s - only four players not available due to injuries in the club ATM.

Some kids are not fully developed at Glenelg after 15 months - still learning what it is to be a dedicated athlete and how to get the most out of their skills. It would seem a shame to see them drop out of the system as we would be forced to do right now if it was an U/18 comp in 2008.

As you know R&B it is a big jump from senior country footy to U/19s - so it is not a lack of ability that often sees kids drop out it is their lack preparation. One of those kids is the brother of a league player so he has the skills but it his attitude and training ethic that needs working on. Hmm where will he learn that best - at a league club or an SFL/Amateur club...

Anyone who thinks having talented 18 yos playing footy a metropolitan clubs compared to league clubs is good for their development has rocks in their head.

Right now at Glenelg we only have 3 U/19s (Holmes, Sveldorf and Carey) other than those on AFl lists worthy of higher grade selection - and don't worry we have made some harsh calls on some 19 -21 years olds recently too. Why because we know the longer you can keep the 19-21 year olds in club - within reason the more they learn about what it is to play good footy and the more chance they have of becoming good league players (Allan, Mules and Pannozzo to name but a few).

Centrals haven't won 6/8 flags through good recruiting only they also have had good juniors too who they have developed post U/19s.

EXACTLY...

Great post overall 1980TM, I couldn't agree more with all of your points, in particular the highlighted one. Well said mate...

[redandblack]

Firstly, whoever said that a player has to play U18's for the first half of the season is just wrong. If an Under 18 is good enough for League, he will be able to play League at any time. He won't be able to play Reserves for the first half of the season.

Second, at the moment, 40% of players at Under 17 level are from private schools, which means that the U17 comp weakens by nearly half when they're (often) required for school football, so the 17's is becoming far less relevant. Of the 50 odd players at Under 17 level, I'd say 60% (yes, 60%) don't get even as far as Under 19's.

The new system sets up Centres of Excellence at all Clubs. I'm sure Glenelg is astute enough to firstly recognise and then manage any junior in their system by a combination of U13, U14, U15, U16 (shortened), U18 elite, with provision for 6 Under 19's, Centre of Excellence, younger Reserves competition and League.

TM, all League Clubs have to make calls on young players. You say the Bays have had to make hard calls on several 19 to 21 year olds, whose development has therefore been terminated - under the current sytem.

Most Clubs now have 18 year old players making their debuts each year. West will debut Tate Silverlock today at league level. I think Tate has just turned 17. Most Clubs are well aware of those young players they wish to develop and those who will probably never make League.

No system will cover every eventuality, but I can't see that the current system is working.

What the new comp will do is to offer one elite junior competition for the League Clubs, which has to improve the standard of junior footy greatly.

I'll tell you something else - I bet we start taking much more notice of the U18 comp than we currently do with the 17's and 19's.

[whatever]

What the new comp will do is to offer one elite junior competition for the League Clubs, which has to improve the standard of junior footy greatly.

I'll tell you something else - I bet we start taking much more notice of the U18 comp than we currently do with the 17's and 19's.

how the is this competition going to be more elite. other than more money being givenn to clubs to develop players which apparently under the current structure would not have improved the competition.

all the private school kids will still be missing

5-4 vote not sufficient in my mind to change the structure of a competition, most compettition requir 2/3 or 75% vote to get through major changes. Would have the SANFL listened to the vote if it was the other way.

99% of people will still have no interest in junior football.

No one said that under 18's will have to play colts, it was just pointed out that there is a push for this to happen in an attempt to make the junior competition a higher standard.

[am Bays]

R&B I agree with your points regarding the U/17s

Whilst I am a traditionalist I'm can cleay see that running a 17s competition alongside a independant schools competition is not ideal and a strain on resource. I have no rational objection to the scrapping of the 17s and replacing it with an abridge season.

I also acknowledge that there are many wasy to skin a cat, athlete development can take many forms and there are some aspects of this new competition that are major improvements on the old system such as the centres of excellence.

However the most significant aspect in the development of the gun juniors (Cooney, Hurn, Gibbs, Fisher, Griffin etc) happens approxiamtely nine months before birth. The SANFL clubs and the development programs have no real impact on their progression to the elite level as they ar going to make it they at best provide the environemt. It could be argued that the money that clubs get for having thsose kid drafted especially those in the first round shouldn't go to them they should go strainght to their parents for having that root 19 odd years ago....

So in terms of drafting this change will have no real impact.

where it will ahve an impact IMO, and a negative one at that, is that it will now be harder for SANFL clubs to retain teh kids at the level below the aAFl as they take more time to develop - because of their lower natural skill level. So with it harder to retain those kids (and I have cited examples from my club) you can expect to see more of them drift away from the SANFL due to lack of opportunity to keep them in your club system. Ergo our league competition will weaken further. Is that what you want - a weaker Westies league team.

ALL SANFL league teams will be weaker in five years time comapred to what they are now as a result of this decision.

As I've said I wish the clubs/SANFL had adopted the Eagles proposition, best of both worlds.

[redandblack]

TM, I'm also a traditionalist and I respect your opinion on this. Nobody really knows whether this will work out or not, but I'm in favour of the change because I see so many deficiencies in the current system.

You ask whether I want a weaker Westies team and of course, I don't. But I look at one of our Under 17 premiership teams from a few years ago and find that 6 of them were drafted, an amazing statistic. From memory, they included Cooney, Waters and Slattery. Apart from the 6, there are no, repeat no, others playing for our league team. To me, this indicates a major shortcoming in the current system.

An Under 18's competition will be a vastly better quality than the current junior teams, because a player will have to be good to make the team. Currently, there are a large number of players in the U19 teams who aren't within a bull's roar of ever playing league - the large majority, in fact. An Under 18 team will have some of the best U17 talent playing, as well as the best U18 players and will be a strong competition.

Currently, we have Centrals going feral about the change and we see one of their junior teams being beaten by 30 goals. If they want to lecture us about theintegrity of the junior system, perhaps they should examine their ethics regarding player payments.

I'm enjoying the debate, TM and you make some good points. I'll post further, but now I'm off to Noarlunga to see Westies win and the 17 yo Tate Silverlock play, along with other juniors, Slattery, Martin, etc, etc.

[MightyEagles]

Did anyone else see the ad for the coach for the u18s at South in todays Advertiser.

[smac]

I'm unsure you can lecture on the merits of going ferla R&B, you're pushing that boundary yourself.

I also wouldn't sit in the glass house at Richmond and throw stones about player payments, when the windows break all sorts of skeletons may fall out. Try sticking to the debate and the merits of the incoming system.

[FlyingHigh]

Having been involved in country footy, the SANFL seems to hold very little aspration for the majority of kids, other than the attraction of the attention to play at a higher level and be recognised as being better than some of their peers. To actually play SANFL league footy does not seem something many to aspire to do. It is hard enough currently for SANFL clubs with the amount of money thrown around by country or amatuer clubs, esp to 19-20 year olds.

How many of the kids drafted at U/18's level actually make decent AFL careers? By the end of their school days they will basically be told you can play AFL or not.

How many mature-age recruits have come from the SANFL over the past few years compared to other leagues, especially the WAFL?

[Big Phil]

Did anyone else see the ad for the coach for the u18s at South in todays Advertiser.

Yeah, I did...

Was thinking of applying for it were you ME

[MightyEagles]

Did anyone else see the ad for the coach for the u18s at South in todays Advertiser.

Yeah, I did...

Was thinking of applying for it were you ME

Of course, I've learnt a lot over the past 4 years at the underage level at the Eagles.

[smac]

My guess would be that most clubs are now going to be looking for semi professional coaches, looking to progress to SANFL/AFL coaching - ex AFL players would be their target I expect.

[Big Phil]

Did anyone else see the ad for the coach for the u18s at South in todays Advertiser.

Yeah, I did...

Was thinking of applying for it were you ME

Of course, I've learnt a lot over the past 4 years at the underage level at the Eagles.

Well if you get the nod and need an assistant coach, just PM me

[MightyEagles]

Did anyone else see the ad for the coach for the u18s at South in todays Advertiser.

Yeah, I did...

Was thinking of applying for it were you ME

Of course, I've learnt a lot over the past 4 years at the underage level at the Eagles.

Well if you get the nod and need an assistant coach, just PM me

Will do.

[TigerBoss]

TM, I'm also a traditionalist and I respect your opinion on this. Nobody really knows whether this will work out or not, but I'm in favour of the change because I see so many deficiencies in the current system.

You ask whether I want a weaker Westies team and of course, I don't. But I look at one of our Under 17 premiership teams from a few years ago and find that 6 of them were drafted, an amazing statistic. From memory, they included Cooney, Waters and Slattery. Apart from the 6, there are no, repeat no, others playing for our league team. To me, this indicates a major shortcoming in the current system.

An Under 18's competition will be a vastly better quality than the current junior teams, because a player will have to be good to make the team. Currently, there are a large number of players in the U19 teams who aren't within a bull's roar of ever playing league - the large majority, in fact. An Under 18 team will have some of the best U17 talent playing, as well as the best U18 players and will be a strong competition.

Currently, we have Centrals going feral about the change and we see one of their junior teams being beaten by 30 goals. If they want to lecture us about theintegrity of the junior system, perhaps they should examine their ethics regarding player payments.

I'm enjoying the debate, TM and you make some good points. I'll post further, but now I'm off to Noarlunga to see Westies win and the 17 yo Tate Silverlock play, along with other juniors, Slattery, Martin, etc, etc.

Nice faith shown here by R&B...nice to have faith rewarded by the boys with a BIG win, in both the As and the Bs.

PS - I won't back down...the 17s and 19s comp was fine as it was. Agree to disagree on this I think...

[Hondo]

Is everyone arguing on the same side as their club's official position on the issue