Worsfold - We could have won 5 more Premierships

[sjt]

Play the fringe / developing players in the positions you'd like them in the seniors, they learn to play with each other, build friendships, learn the game plan.
When you're training an apprentice you don't send him to another company and when he gets goods enough take him back.
Train from within, learn how the organization works.

The sooner SA adopts it too and we will see a big improvement over the long run from our AFL sides.

Excellent article Worsfold - makes perfect logical sense.

Yes, on that logic if Collingwood, Western Bulldogs, Richmond, St Kilda etc had reserves teams imagine how many flags they would have won in the last 25 years. Oh, hang on....

[MightyEagles]

If clubs want reserves teams, why don't they go to the AFL and ask for an AFL Reserves comp. But hang on, it would be too difficult to do that.

[Wedgie]

If Geelong got to play home finals at their home ground like the Eagles do then they would have won 10 more premierships.
If we keep the "ifs" going I reckon we could have a couple of hundred flags accounted for in the last 25 years.

[White Line Fever]

Hmmm, if every club that didn't have a reserves side would have won 2 more flags in the last 25 years if they did have a reserves side then that means about 40-50 flags would have had to have been awarded in 25 seasons if every club had a reserves side every year.
Can't argue with that logic!

Let me help clear it up for you.

A reserves team will help develop the fringe players, for example players 17-25 of squad, who are in and out of the team.
If the first 16 are no good, no reserves team will help, ableit maybe in the long run if your focus is re-building.

Terrible argument.

Don't have to clear anything up, a majority of flags have been won in the AFL without a true reserves side, if those sides had won 2 more flags each we'd have run out of cups!
My argument might be terrible but Worsfolds is even worse!

Personally I reckon North Adelaide would have won 20 more flags in the last 20 years if they didn't have a reserves side, I guess its all just crazy speculation and we'll never know though!
Geddit?

Yeah it is just speculation - who really does know?
But if you put it to the 17 AFL coaches they'd prefer a reserves side for maybe that 5% extra edge.
Obviously injuries/form would determine the extent of its benefits.
It makes sense, but at the risk of hurting the feelings of SANFL die-hards who secretly hope Adelaide & Port fail to the point they fold and the SANFL becomes the tier 1 comp in SA like 'the good ol days'

[White Line Fever]

You'd rather see the inegrity of the AFL damaged than the SANFL?

Integrity? AFL?

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!

BTW - if the rest of your post is truly representative of your attitude then why not wander over to Bigfooty.com where your posts will be better appreciated by the other epsilon-grades.

Sorry the intent of my post was not appreciated by you Pseudo.
I'll try harder not to have an opinion different to yours on a public forum next time.

[sjt]

Hmmm, if every club that didn't have a reserves side would have won 2 more flags in the last 25 years if they did have a reserves side then that means about 40-50 flags would have had to have been awarded in 25 seasons if every club had a reserves side every year.
Can't argue with that logic!

Let me help clear it up for you.

A reserves team will help develop the fringe players, for example players 17-25 of squad, who are in and out of the team.
If the first 16 are no good, no reserves team will help, ableit maybe in the long run if your focus is re-building.

Terrible argument.

Don't have to clear anything up, a majority of flags have been won in the AFL without a true reserves side, if those sides had won 2 more flags each we'd have run out of cups!
My argument might be terrible but Worsfolds is even worse!

Personally I reckon North Adelaide would have won 20 more flags in the last 20 years if they didn't have a reserves side, I guess its all just crazy speculation and we'll never know though!
Geddit?

Yeah it is just speculation - who really does know?
But if you put it to the 17 AFL coaches they'd prefer a reserves side for maybe that 5% extra edge.
Obviously injuries/form would determine the extent of its benefits.
It makes sense, but at the risk of hurting the feelings of SANFL die-hards who secretly hope Adelaide & Port fail to the point they fold and the SANFL becomes the tier 1 comp in SA like 'the good ol days'[/quote]

I hope Port and the Crows are massively successful. I'd like to see the Crows win the next five flags. I don't think (and nor does Neil Craig), that having a reserves side will help them achieve that goal. As an example maybe Jack Gunston's developed better, having played in last years GF.

[JK]

Yeah it is just speculation - who really does know?
But if you put it to the 17 AFL coaches they'd prefer a reserves side for maybe that 5% extra edge.
Obviously injuries/form would determine the extent of its benefits.
It makes sense, but at the risk of hurting the feelings of SANFL die-hards who secretly hope Adelaide & Port fail to the point they fold and the SANFL becomes the tier 1 comp in SA like 'the good ol days'

I get the feeling you are intentionally skipping the point that has been raised a few times now - "Why don't the AFL establish their own national Reserves competition"?

[White Line Fever]

Play the fringe / developing players in the positions you'd like them in the seniors, they learn to play with each other, build friendships, learn the game plan.
When you're training an apprentice you don't send him to another company and when he gets goods enough take him back.
Train from within, learn how the organization works.

The sooner SA adopts it too and we will see a big improvement over the long run from our AFL sides.

Excellent article Worsfold - makes perfect logical sense.

Yes, on that logic if Collingwood, Western Bulldogs, Richmond, St Kilda etc had reserves teams imagine how many flags they would have won in the last 25 years. Oh, hang on....

I will concede that it may not equal premierships, but it has clear benefits - and that may help a side to become more successful over time.
It might solve the problems of AFL-listed players playing in SANFL ressies, switching clubs as they 'are not getting a go', and rookies walking away from the game due to exploitation.
Tell me the disadvantages it would have on an AFL club?

I get the feeling you are intentionally skipping the point that has been raised a few times now - "Why don't the AFL establish their own national Reserves competition"?

Maybe the Foxtel Cup is them testing the water.
Maybe they are making a financial decision to ride the coat tails of the local comps as the ressies comp would not have sufficeint following to cover gate costs.
Maybe they are protecting the SANFL by not making a reserves comp so the SANFL doesn't have direct competition.

[sjt]

Play the fringe / developing players in the positions you'd like them in the seniors, they learn to play with each other, build friendships, learn the game plan.
When you're training an apprentice you don't send him to another company and when he gets goods enough take him back.
Train from within, learn how the organization works.

The sooner SA adopts it too and we will see a big improvement over the long run from our AFL sides.

Excellent article Worsfold - makes perfect logical sense.

Yes, on that logic if Collingwood, Western Bulldogs, Richmond, St Kilda etc had reserves teams imagine how many flags they would have won in the last 25 years. Oh, hang on....

I will concede that it may not equal premierships, but it has clear benefits - and that may help a side to become more successful over time.
It might solve the problems of AFL-listed players playing in SANFL ressies, switching clubs as they 'are not getting a go', and rookies walking away from the game due to exploitation.
Tell me the disadvantages it would have on an AFL club?

I get the feeling you are intentionally skipping the point that has been raised a few times now - "Why don't the AFL establish their own national Reserves competition"?

Maybe the Foxtel Cup is them testing the water.
Maybe they are making a financial decision to ride the coat tails of the local comps as the ressies comp would not have sufficeint following to cover gate costs.
Maybe they are protecting the SANFL by not making a reserves comp so the SANFL doesn't have direct competition.

Other than cost, it's probably best to read the article that Neil Craig Commented in, I'm surprised you haven't..

[White Line Fever]

send me the link if available please

[JK]

I get the feeling you are intentionally skipping the point that has been raised a few times now - "Why don't the AFL establish their own national Reserves competition"?

Maybe the Foxtel Cup is them testing the water.
Maybe they are making a financial decision to ride the coat tails of the local comps as the ressies comp would not have sufficeint following to cover gate costs.
Maybe they are protecting the SANFL by not making a reserves comp so the SANFL doesn't have direct competition.

Or maybe Andy D in usual fashion is trying to skimp (*cough* Rookie Contracts) and get someone else to carry the $ can?

[Pseudo]

I will concede that it may not equal premierships, but it has clear benefits - and that may help a side to become more successful over time.
It might solve the problems of AFL-listed players playing in SANFL ressies, switching clubs as they 'are not getting a go', and rookies walking away from the game due to exploitation.
Tell me the disadvantages it would have on an AFL club?

A little elementary game theory: a competitive advantage ceases to be so when all parties are privy to it. Any advantage gained by fielding a reserves side disappears once all other teams also field one. The same argument could be pointed towards the SANFL clubs and their seemingly inexorable desire to erect light towers. As with most arms races, benefits are short-lived and cancel out in the long term.

For the record, I do not give a wet slap if any particular AFL club desires a reserves team. Just so long as they field it in a competition other than the SANFL. JK speaks much sense.

[nickname]

You'd rather see the inegrity of the AFL damaged than the SANFL? (obviously speculation - we can't predict it will even do any damage)
Aspring youngsters need to want to play at the highest possible level - not SANFL - therefore we have an obligation to provide them the best path & club structure to achieve success.

How is the integrity of the AFL damaged by a few non-Victorian clubs not having a Reserves team? You're not tampering with the make-up of a competition. You're not introducing teams whose first priority is development of players for another comp, rather than winning the comp they're in.

Aspiring youngsters already do want to play at AFL level. And I don't know that the bonding you're talking about is going to eventuate all that often seeing as they'll very often be playing in sides half of which will be made up of players from outside their club.

[White Line Fever]

Or maybe Andy D in usual fashion is trying to skimp (*cough* Rookie Contracts) and get someone else to carry the $ can?

Good point I should've thought of that

Maybe they are making a financial decision to ride the coat tails of the local comps as the ressies comp would not have sufficeint following to cover gate costs.

[White Line Fever]

I will concede that it may not equal premierships, but it has clear benefits - and that may help a side to become more successful over time.
It might solve the problems of AFL-listed players playing in SANFL ressies, switching clubs as they 'are not getting a go', and rookies walking away from the game due to exploitation.
Tell me the disadvantages it would have on an AFL club?

A little elementary game theory: a competitive advantage ceases to be so when all parties are privy to it. Any advantage gained by fielding a reserves side disappears once all other teams also field one. The same argument could be pointed towards the SANFL clubs and their seemingly inexorable desire to erect light towers. As with most arms races, benefits are short-lived and cancel out in the long term.

For the record, I do not give a wet slap if any particular AFL club desires a reserves team. Just so long as they field it in a competition other than the SANFL. JK speaks much sense.

Definately Pseudo ...
but what if SA is left holding the baby while the other 15 teams implement ressies sides.
eg. All teams do recovery, not because it gives them an advantage over the next team, but because if they don't it will disadvantage them.

[White Line Fever]

You'd rather see the inegrity of the AFL damaged than the SANFL? (obviously speculation - we can't predict it will even do any damage)
Aspring youngsters need to want to play at the highest possible level - not SANFL - therefore we have an obligation to provide them the best path & club structure to achieve success.

How is the integrity of the AFL damaged by a few non-Victorian clubs not having a Reserves team? You're not tampering with the make-up of a competition. You're not introducing teams whose first priority is development of players for another comp, rather than winning the comp they're in.
It gives non-SA based teams an advantage over us.
Players always play to win premierships
Aspiring youngsters already do want to play at AFL level. And I don't know that the bonding you're talking about is going to eventuate all that often seeing as they'll very often be playing in sides half of which will be made up of players from outside their club.
Pretty basic theory that the longer you play together you understand strengths/weaknesses, traits etc whether it's one or 21 players

[White Line Fever]

phew...

someone back me up I've thrown a chip into a flock of seagulls

[nickname]

It gives non-SA based teams an advantage over us.

Players always play to win premierships

Other teams having an advantage does not affect the integrity of the AFL competition. Does Collingwood having better footballers affect the integrity of the competition? Because that's quite an advantage.

And these teams are not about winning premierships - this comes from their own mouths. Lockyer last Saturday said it was all about process, he didn't care about the result. Another AFL assistant has said the worst thing for the development of a young player is to play with a win-at-all-costs mentality. Development is all they're interested in.

But where is the argument for putting these teams in the SANFL? Have them if you want but why demean the history, significance and potentially quality of an entire competition along the way?

[PhilH]

League teams (regardless of competition) have as their overiding aim to win the premiership

Reserves teams (regardless of competition) have as their #1 aim developing players do they can make the league team and help their league team win a premiership.


Putting a Reserves team in a League competition devalues that competition because you have differing organisations with very different aims.

Solution - Put any reserves teams in a reserves competition

[o five]

Sure hope this doesn`t eventuate, as North would be crippled without Moore and Stewart playing for them