West Coast/Freo Reserves in WAFL proposal

[redandblack]

csb, the SANFL is stronger than it has been for years. Crowds are up, the clubs are making a profit and the SANFL is strong. It doesn't need its debt paid off by the AFL.

I agree with you that no-one in the media sticks up for the SANFL. It's always been a mystery to me why so many who began their careers in the SANFL disrespect it so much. In SA, it's the AFL brand that's in trouble, not the SANFL brand.

If you don't trust the local presidents, why do you blame the SANFL Commission, who have overseen the SANFL becoming stronger. You're right, though, it's not the Commission that might be the problem, put some coin in front of the Club's Presidents (with one or two honorable exceptions) and you've got a potential problem.

To say the league is worse off now than before the Crows begs the answer that of course it is - how could it not be?

The SANFL won't ever be what it was 25 years ago, so that's an unrealistic wish.

Times change, situations change and we have to adapt to each challenge to keep our league as strong as possible. There's no point any of us just whinging about it. I'm dead against AFL Reserves teams playing in our comp, so I'll be watching the WAC situation closely.

[CENTURION]

csb, the SANFL is stronger than it has been for years. Crowds are up, the clubs are making a profit and the SANFL is strong. It doesn't need its debt paid off by the AFL.

I agree with you that no-one in the media sticks up for the SANFL. It's always been a mystery to me why so many who began their careers in the SANFL disrespect it so much. In SA, it's the AFL brand that's in trouble, not the SANFL brand.

If you don't trust the local presidents, why do you blame the SANFL Commission, who have overseen the SANFL becoming stronger. You're right, though, it's not the Commission that might be the problem, put some coin in front of the Club's Presidents (with one or two honorable exceptions) and you've got a potential problem.

To say the league is worse off now than before the Crows begs the answer that of course it is - how could it not be?

The SANFL won't ever be what it was 25 years ago, so that's an unrealistic wish.
Then why can't we "abdicate", before it's too late? Sure things won't be as good but it'll be OURS!
Times change, situations change and we have to adapt to each challenge to keep our league as strong as possible. There's no point any of us just whinging about it. I'm dead against AFL Reserves teams playing in our comp, so I'll be watching the WAC situation closely.

[redandblack]

Yes, Centurion, we could abdicate, but we probably think junior development might miss the million dollars a year the AFL put in and we probably can't think of a good reason to separate from every other footy league in Australia.

[whufc]

This is a very interesting comment from that article

'All top-up players would come from a mix of AFL delisted players (not originally drafted from WAFL clubs), interstate players, temporary permit WAFL players and non-WAFL listed metropolitan or country league players (aged 19 or over).'

[Barto]

Why would you want to play for a WAFL club when you can line up with an AFL reserves side?

Perhaps it's time for the SANFL clubs etc to jack up and say they're not going to bother with junior development anymore. Just start using their income to pay players from the country etc to come back.

[csbowes]

csb, the SANFL is stronger than it has been for years. Crowds are up, the clubs are making a profit and the SANFL is strong. It doesn't need its debt paid off by the AFL.

I think the SANFL is stronger than it was back in the mid-1990s with regards to finances, clubs don't seem to be going down the toilet like they were back then, however I think the competitiveness of the league was definitely better back then when compared to what I'm seeing at the moment.

If you don't trust the local presidents, why do you blame the SANFL Commission, who have overseen the SANFL becoming stronger. You're right, though, it's not the Commission that might be the problem, put some coin in front of the Club's Presidents (with one or two honorable exceptions) and you've got a potential problem.

This is the other part of the competition that isn't as strong now as what it was before. The SANFL commission has less balls now and the same can be said for some club presidents. How quickly half the league turned on the other half to scrap the U19s and U17s in exchange for a few bucks...

The Foxtel Cup is another fiasco. The league couldn't even decide amongst itself whether it was going to support or withdraw from the competition. Half the league said no thanks, half the league said yes please and that just tells me there's more "me, me, me" in the league than maybe we'd like to think.

Without solidarity the AFL can divide and conquer.

Times change, situations change and we have to adapt to each challenge to keep our league as strong as possible.

I agree. I just don't believe the league, commission, club presidents etc feel the same. There's no stomach to stand up to the AFL, at least not as a united group, find me a single club that has come out and given the AFL the finger and when you do, find me another club that backs them.

[Barto]

I could understand West Coast and Freo's push if they had a list of 45-50 players but if this had happened a couple of years ago, this week Freo's reserves would have a total of three listed players in that team. What's the point?

[Pseudo]

I will NEVER attend a SANFL game featuring a dedicated AFL reserves side.

I think this is what the VFL/AFL want. They did it to the VFA/VFL, there used to be thousands of people attending that comp and now it's dead.

They know there's not enough seats at AFL games for the people they're trying to stop from going to local competitions, so they're hoping that these people will stay in their lounge rooms and watch their 'product' on TV.

Perhaps I should have emphasised the word game.

I'll still go and watch the Bays slog it out against the other sovereign clubs. I will not attend - not ever - any game between a Port/Crows/other AFL reserves team and Glenelg or any other sovereign club. Heck, I'd even maintain my own version of the premiership ladder, ignoring the results of any fixtures featuring AFL rubbish.

If and when the SANFL morphs entirely into an entity which exists to service the whims of the AFL and the local AFL clubs - and the SANFL has started down this slope, but has a while to reach the critical point yet - then I'd probably turn my back on it.

Incidentally I would not stay at home to watch an inferior football-based sports entertainment product (the AFL) instead, so the AFL's Grand Plan would be wasted on me, at least.

[csbowes]

Why would you want to play for a WAFL club when you can line up with an AFL reserves side?

Perhaps it's time for the SANFL clubs etc to jack up and say they're not going to bother with junior development anymore. Just start using their income to pay players from the country etc to come back.

100% agree...

If you're a player with ambition, you'll want to play for the AFL reserves side. You then have access to better facilities, better coaches and specialists and are much more likely to be seen as a potential future recruit. This is surely an undeniable fact and as such would completely compromise recruiting.

[whufc]

I could understand West Coast and Freo's push if they had a list of 45-50 players but if this had happened a couple of years ago, this week Freo's reserves would have a total of three listed players in that team. What's the point?

Well in the article it mentions they will get top up players from interstate, i hope they dont think they can borrow Central players for a weekend promising them a very close eye on their form and a future chance of being drafted.

[csbowes]

I'll still go and watch the Bays slog it out against the other sovereign clubs. I will not attend - not ever - any game between a Port/Crows/other AFL reserves team and Glenelg or any other sovereign club. Heck, I'd even maintain my own version of the premiership ladder, ignoring the results of any fixtures featuring AFL rubbish.

Problem would be finals, mate...

What I'd hate most is going to an SANFL finals match to see Sturt v Crows and see all these wanker Crows supporters there, people who wouldn't even recognise who the blue team was having never seen an SANFL game, sitting their cheering on their make believe team, it'd give a whole new amazing meaning to the phrase "band wagon" supporters.

[redandblack]

csb, why would any one club want to give the AFL the finger?

I think you're actually agreeing with me that it's far better to have the Commission dealing with the AFL than 8 individual Club Presidents.

As I've said before, the reality is that the AFL is a very wealthy and powerful body which controls football in Australia. I think the increasing popularity and strength of the SANFL is a good effort in balancing reality with independence.

PS: Still waiting, Pseudo

[csbowes]

This is a very interesting comment from that article

'All top-up players would come from a mix of AFL delisted players (not originally drafted from WAFL clubs), interstate players, temporary permit WAFL players and non-WAFL listed metropolitan or country league players (aged 19 or over).'

That says it all... AFL de-listed players... if you're a fringe Carlton player not getting anywhere, come over here and play for the Crows or Power in the SANFL and be right under the eye of Craig or Primus...

[redandblack]

I would say that a Crows or Port Reserves side would get smashed by most SANFL teams anyway.

Just watch the fluctuating form of Reserves teams at SANFL level to understand why football is a mental game.

[Pseudo]

Yes, Centurion, we could abdicate, but we probably think junior development might miss the million dollars a year the AFL put in and we probably can't think of a good reason to separate from every other footy league in Australia.

I don't know about the applicability of terms like "abdicate" and "separate from other footy leagues", but simply raising the index finger skywards while facing the AFL and uttering a simple "NO" might work wonders. Throwing money in the SANFL's direction for the sake of junior development - which will ultimately benefit the AFL - does not mean that the SANFL needs to dance to the AFL's tune.

[csbowes]

csb, why would any one club want to give the AFL the finger?

Because we'd like to keep the U19s and U17s as one simple example. That was a perfect opportunity to say to the AFL, thanks but no thanks, we'll be right on our own and you can go shove your idea of how football should be...

...but alas we bent over and took the pineapple.

Look around, we're all fearful of the fact that the Crows and Power will end up with a Reserves team, we wouldn't be fearful of that if we knew we had a commission and a collection of clubs who would stand firm. We're all suspicious they'll give in and then dress it up. Look at the crap about the Port Adelaide situation, everything is about how great everything is, no reality in the press releases whatsoever.

[redandblack]

Pseudo, you really need a bit more substance than just 'raising a finger and saying NO'.

As for junior development, I think the AFL should be giving SA far more than they do, but it's just silly to wipe off a million dollars by saying junior developement benefits the AFL. of course it does, but it benefits everyone.

csb, it's only your opinion about the 19's and 17's. I think the change has been great, so it's just a difference of opinion.

Your argument is that you don't trust the SANFL clubs. That's fair enough, but do something about it at your club. Berating the AFL isn't going to work

[Pseudo]

I'll still go and watch the Bays slog it out against the other sovereign clubs. I will not attend - not ever - any game between a Port/Crows/other AFL reserves team and Glenelg or any other sovereign club. Heck, I'd even maintain my own version of the premiership ladder, ignoring the results of any fixtures featuring AFL rubbish.

Problem would be finals, mate...

Not at all. In the unlikely event that the Grand Final was contested by AFL teams, then in my own little private fantasy world the premier would be the sovereign club which contested the preliminary final. I will not recognise any game - not even a final - featuring AFL reserves teams.

[Barto]

I will NEVER attend a SANFL game featuring a dedicated AFL reserves side.

I think this is what the VFL/AFL want. They did it to the VFA/VFL, there used to be thousands of people attending that comp and now it's dead.

They know there's not enough seats at AFL games for the people they're trying to stop from going to local competitions, so they're hoping that these people will stay in their lounge rooms and watch their 'product' on TV.

Perhaps I should have emphasised the word game.

I'll still go and watch the Bays slog it out against the other sovereign clubs. I will not attend - not ever - any game between a Port/Crows/other AFL reserves team and Glenelg or any other sovereign club. Heck, I'd even maintain my own version of the premiership ladder, ignoring the results of any fixtures featuring AFL rubbish.

If and when the SANFL morphs entirely into an entity which exists to service the whims of the AFL and the local AFL clubs - and the SANFL has started down this slope, but has a while to reach the critical point yet - then I'd probably turn my back on it.

Incidentally I would not stay at home to watch an inferior football-based sports entertainment product (the AFL) instead, so the AFL's Grand Plan would be wasted on me, at least.

Yes, but my point stands is that they dont want you attending football that isn't AFL. It must anger them to see a few thousand people get out for the local league. It must drive them bonkers seeing photos of kids wearing local footy gear having a kick at quarter time. They're not purchasing the AFL product that they've fought hard to market. Even if you'd never watch their version of the game on TV, knowing that your out at a local oval means that you're definitely not viewing.

Demetriou stated recently that he'd like to see a least 1 million people playing the game. Why would he want that? People play footy when there are AFL games on TV. It'd be one million less viewers.

[csbowes]

I would say that a Crows or Port Reserves side would get smashed by most SANFL teams anyway.

I agree they'd probably get beaten more times than not initially, but over the course of the first few years you would have more and more of those top interstate and AFL-delisted players coming to ONLY those two sides, as that's their best chance of re-entering the AFL because you'll be right in the face of the coaches of the Crows and Power.

Surely we all agree that this isn't even a point to debate. I think any parent would tell their kid to play for the Power or Crows, no one would say, hell yeah, go play for South or North, who the hell are those clubs anyway would be the response. Plus I reckon once they have their foot in the door, they'll push for more rule changes and benefits.