Is the SANFL doomed???

[doggies4eva]

If the internet were around during the periods of Sturts and Ports dominance I wonder what would've been posted.

I agree with Barto here... while I understand people being bored with Centrals winning again and again and again, it's no different to what everyone went through during the 1950's (being sick of Port), 1960's and some of the 1970s (being sick of Sturt) and the late 1980's and 1990's (geez could Port actually give someone else a chance). At the same time, I think it would be silly of Central fans not to realise that for the benefit of the league, the domination needs to end.

For them, long may it go on, for everyone else, I'm sure we'd all like to see some different clubs compete for a few years at least, just for something different, if there's one thing the AFL did work out right (whether you like it or not), grannies and flags are shared around a fair bit in the national league and that keeps heaps of fans onside. Just look at 1970-1989, hardly any teams won a flag, from 1990 onwards, just about everyone has nabbed 1 or 2.

Centrals dominance does hurt the league a bit... but that's the other 7 clubs fault, not theirs.

Direct live coverage of the SANFL also hurts, I'd much rather see it delayed on ABC2 or ABC3. In fact, I'd like to see some sort of digital channel which just shows SANFL, WAFL, QAFL etc football, would be interesting, but that's me.

Awww you're making me feel guilty - us being all dominant Think I'll barrack for Norwood this week

[Barto]

One thing the league should do next year when the Western Stand is finished at AO is test the water a bit, give Port a couple of home games there and see what happens. It might be hard to judge with the novelty factor kicking in but it could be a good sign if it's worth the effort.

One thing I would look at is dropping the weekly training load for SANFL players. Footballers at this level train almost as hard as their AFL counterparts, for little financial reward and they've still got to put in a full working day. It's the main reason why blokes who have given up the AFL dream head off to the country or to the ammos.

[Hondo]

My random thoughts:

With our population and being a traditional football state we can definitely support 2 AFL teams. To say otherwise makes us sound like some minor city on the national football landscape which we aren't.

Until recent years the 2 AFL teams were proving to be a good cash cows for the SANFL. Since then we to have a perfect storm of issues hitting at once seemingly centred around AAMI Stadium (or attendances at AAMI Stadium). The Crows regularly sell out the stadium yet around 10,000 don't show up and that impacts the catering revenue. We have discussed reasons why attendances are down many times already.

The AFL say that AAMI Stadium is "on the nose" and therefore shifting to the CBD is the only long term answer. Even if AAMI wasn't on the nose before, the great stadium debate has killed it IMO. I have been a supporter of Footy Park as I grew up watching games there but even I accept that the problems everyone talks about with the stadium are real.

I think we have to get on and get the AO redevelopment done and take it from there. We have to make sure that our 9 SANFL clubs are financially viable in the meantime and so lifting the salary cap seems to be taking it the other way. We aren't going to be able to fix the financial problems of the SANFL through the SANFL clubs buying players from other state leagues and hoping more people will attend SANFL games because of a higher standard. We are seeing WAFL clubs now matching offers made by SANFL clubs and we have 2 more AFL teams picking off the next best talent in the state leagues. We'll spend ourselves into more problems IMO.

I don't think the success of the CDFC has anything to do with the losses being made by the Crows and the Power.

[Pseudo]

I don't think the SANFL is doomed at all, quite the opposite. Yes the standard will be leached yet again by the AFL but it's always been the case.

What concerns me is the dying of the two local AFL clubs. In the late 90's they both had excellent crowds, so what's changed? I hear Port fans blaming the location of Football Park, but it didnt seem to a problem until recently. Perhaps it's more to do with the fact that AFL isn't good value for money when your club is playing like crap.

The SANFL represents good value for money and alternative for the football fan in Adelaide, crowds are up and that has to piss the AFL off.

What I want to know is: what happens if the SANFL sell up Footy Park, hundreds of millions of dollars are spent on AO and Port still get sub 20K crowds to some games?

What he said.

As long as there are enough of us blokes (and lasses) to fill an internet forum with ill-informed opinions, passion, and plain trolling, the SANFL will never die.

Just be sure to buy your kids a SANFL team guernsey instead of a Crows jumper and the league will be fine in the long term.

[Pseudo]

While I'm on my tirade here...

I don't see why we can't have the Crows at FP and the Power at AO...

Then you would have the ironic situation of the Adelaide team playing at Port Adelaide (near enough) and the Port Adelaide team playing at Adelaide.

Not that it would matter; none of today's corporate AFL "franchises" has any real connection with its suburban roots. One more reason to prefer SANFL.

[heater31]

One thing the league should do next year when the Western Stand is finished at AO is test the water a bit, give Port a couple of home games there and see what happens. It might be hard to judge with the novelty factor kicking in but it could be a good sign if it's worth the effort.

One thing I would look at is dropping the weekly training load for SANFL players. Footballers at this level train almost as hard as their AFL counterparts, for little financial reward and they've still got to put in a full working day. It's the main reason why blokes who have given up the AFL dream head off to the country or to the ammos.

SANFL is Semi professional at some clubs players are required sometimes up to 4 times a week plus Game Day. Most training sessions it could be well past 8pm before they can go home. But what gives?

Early in the week its recovery/strength and match review. Mid week the main training session, end of week is game preparation and team structures and of course weekends its game day. In between this they must seek medical professionals for injuries.

Most SANFL players I know are Students or have already negotiated sweet working conditions for their 9-5 job with club sponsors etc or SANFL sympathetic bosses.

Now I'm sure I have read somewhere that in the 80's SANFL clubs still trained 2 per week on a Monday and Wednesday. On the Tuesday it was an optional session in the gym. Obviously the fringe blokes were there busting their butts on a Tuesday and the superstars could please themselves

[blues2002]

Then you would have the ironic situation of the Adelaide team playing at Port Adelaide (near enough) and the Port Adelaide team playing at Adelaide.

Not that it would matter; none of today's corporate AFL "franchises" has any real connection with its suburban roots. One more reason to prefer SANFL.

+1. Except the SANFL is becoming more franchise like, or have you been asleep for the past 20 years? Footy is a business first, and a sport 2nd - SANFL included. Luckily some of us remember the opposite. What annoys me the most is that loyalty is to a club, yet a club can dispose of a player but not the other way around. The clubs have to put money ahead of anything else, otherwise no budget to buy in star non-local players. But at least the footy is still great to watch, and, fortunately, some of the players are there for the jumper (or am I being conned?)

[therisingblues]

I just skimmed this thread, and read a few things about Centrals.
While I hate them as I would any dominating team other than my own, I think it is one of the great things about the SANFL that it provides a comp' honest enough to allow a team that is good enough to dominate the way the Dogs have for so long. In the AFL, even with the draft and caps aimed at continually pulling the weak over the strong, even in such an environment already contrived to starve destinys (the natural right of dominant footbal clubs IMO) if a club somehow managed to defy the management's artificial plan of trying to make everyone a winner, and won 4 or 5 flags in 5 or 6 years, there'd be new rules suddenly created and restrictions placed on the successful club to once again even the field, and changes wouldn't stop until said club was once again safely nestled back into the pack.
This is crap IMO. Long live the SANFL and whoever it is that's strong enough to win her flag each year, regarless of how successful they are.
Success is the name of the game after all.

P.S. I agree with what Barto said.

[Royal City]

I don't think the SANFL is doomed at all, quite the opposite. Yes the standard will be leached yet again by the AFL but it's always been the case.

What concerns me is the dying of the two local AFL clubs. In the late 90's they both had excellent crowds, so what's changed? I hear Port fans blaming the location of Football Park, but it didnt seem to a problem until recently. Perhaps it's more to do with the fact that AFL isn't good value for money when your club is playing like crap.

The SANFL represents good value for money and alternative for the football fan in Adelaide, crowds are up and that has to piss the AFL off.

What I want to know is: what happens if the SANFL sell up Footy Park, hundreds of millions of dollars are spent on AO and Port still get sub 20K crowds to some games?

100% agree.

SANFL crowds have increased every year for the last 3 years.

AFL crowds in SA have gone down every year for the last 4 years for both clubs.

Our GF crowd of 36000 last year was bigger than one of the showdowns(pinnacle AFL event held in SA) from memory.

We have two clubs in the league that hasnt made a loss in over a decade (NAFC and CDFC).

Whilst our two AFL clubs ????

Long live the SANFL.

[Sojourner]

One thing the league should do next year when the Western Stand is finished at AO is test the water a bit, give Port a couple of home games there and see what happens. It might be hard to judge with the novelty factor kicking in but it could be a good sign if it's worth the effort.

Totally agree Barto, and it should be trialled amongst all the timeslots they play in. They wont do it though, I suspect because they know what the answer will be.

[LPH]

Some interesting comments made...
Clearly, we are in agreement in terms of wanting our competition to not only survive, but to grow.

What concerns me is the DIRECTION (if any) of those in charge... do we have a 'Master Plan' that doesn't simply say;
"A move to AO is the answer to all our problems"? - I'm not sure we have.

That is what concerns me.

The AFL doesn't want the SANFL (or any other league for that matter) being successful or impinging on it's 'brand'.
If it did, then it would be serious about HELPING - not simply undermining the SANFL by promoting that Footy Park is on the nose & the answer to all your problems is to move to the CBD.

Ask yourself this; Why is that their position? Who has convinced them that a move is the 'answer'?
My guess is TV.

If our competition is to survive & prosper... then those in charge MUST ACT & not simply 'do what they're told' by their overlord bosses from interstate. My personal view is that we may well need to look at joining with the SAAFL & becoming a 'Premier League' competition with divisions below us. I know this may upset some of you, but I can't see an alternative.
Please supply one... I am all 'Tony Abbott' (ears)

[gossipgirl]

in 2012 we are all doomed so nothing really matters anymore

[JK]

Mu understanding is that the SANFL do NOT intend to fund their move to Adelaide Oval via the sale of Footy Park (surrounding land etc), meaning that whilst times might be tough for a bit, there should be a windfall around the corner (ie 5-10 years time) as the land at West Lakes is prime.

This windfall should further ease the financial pressure's on those clubs that are just scraping by.

[Hondo]

Ask yourself this; Why is that their position? Who has convinced them that a move is the 'answer'?
My guess is TV.

My impression is that the SACA and SANFL have done their own independent analysis and the figures show that even the most conservative attendance estimates at AO show a steep increase in revenue for SANFL (incl Crows and Power) and the SACA.

So in effect to answer your question they have convinced themselves. It's fair to say the SANFL were healthily sceptical at the start but have shifted their view as their own figures have shown the benefits.

As CP said about the retaining of the AAMI Stadium property, they get to go to a new stadium without having to invest any of their own money AND they keep the property at West Lakes to commercially develop as they see fit.

I was anti-moving to the AO but now I am on board. That move combined with the next AFL TV rights deal should slip enough money into the SANFL coffers to keep us all happy. Or at least enough to have the SANFL in a better financial place than it is now.

[Royal City]

Ask yourself this; Why is that their position? Who has convinced them that a move is the 'answer'?
My guess is TV.

My impression is that the SACA and SANFL have done their own independent analysis and the figures show that even the most conservative attendance estimates at AO show a steep increase in revenue for SANFL (incl Crows and Power) and the SACA.

So in effect to answer your question they have convinced themselves. It's fair to say the SANFL were healthily sceptical at the start but have shifted their view as their own figures have shown the benefits.

As CP said about the retaining of the AAMI Stadium property, they get to go to a new stadium without having to invest any of their own money AND they keep the property at West Lakes to commercially develop as they see fit.

I was anti-moving to the AO but now I am on board. That move combined with the next AFL TV rights deal should slip enough money into the SANFL coffers to keep us all happy. Or at least enough to have the SANFL in a better financial place than it is now.

I still dont understand how Adding SACA into the dividing up of revenue between the current parties (PAFC/AFC/SANFL). Is going to work out better for everyone.

I am 100% against AO.

And I still 100% think it is not the SANFL/AFC's preferred option. Unfortunately those in charge seem to afraid to say so.

[smac]

I still dont understand how Adding SACA into the dividing up of revenue between the current parties (PAFC/AFC/SANFL). Is going to work out better for everyone.

I am 100% against AO.

And I still 100% think it is not the SANFL/AFC's preferred option. Unfortunately those in charge seem to afraid to say so.

Two points.

Firstly, you admit you don't understand - that's a good start as most people believe they understand and are still against one option or the other. The revenue that is earned from footy goes to the SANFL. The revenue from cricket to SACA. The revenue from other events such as concerts, A League, NRL etc is divided. That's the cream that both SANFL and SACA will make big bucks from as they will no longer be competing for the ACDC concert (for example), they work together and just do it.

Secondly, SANFL are 100% committed and want this to happen. They are staggered by their own projections (not those developed by others) and as highlighted earlier even the most conservative revenue estimates indicate to not go ahead is foolish and would lead to the SANFL losing control of their own destiny.

[smac]

While I'm on my tirade here...

I don't see why we can't have the Crows at FP and the Power at AO...

Then you would have the ironic situation of the Adelaide team playing at Port Adelaide (near enough) and the Port Adelaide team playing at Adelaide.

Not that it would matter; none of today's corporate AFL "franchises" has any real connection with its suburban roots. One more reason to prefer SANFL.

Economies of scale. Why have two sets of groundstaff working to prepare two ovals all winter when you can do it with half that? Same goes for many other functions related to the management of the ground.

[Royal City]

I still dont understand how Adding SACA into the dividing up of revenue between the current parties (PAFC/AFC/SANFL). Is going to work out better for everyone.

I am 100% against AO.

And I still 100% think it is not the SANFL/AFC's preferred option. Unfortunately those in charge seem to afraid to say so.

Two points.

Firstly, you admit you don't understand - that's a good start as most people believe they understand and are still against one option or the other. The revenue that is earned from footy goes to the SANFL. The revenue from cricket to SACA. The revenue from other events such as concerts, A League, NRL etc is divided. That's the cream that both SANFL and SACA will make big bucks from as they will no longer be competing for the ACDC concert (for example), they work together and just do it.

Secondly, SANFL are 100% committed and want this to happen. They are staggered by their own projections (not those developed by others) and as highlighted earlier even the most conservative revenue estimates indicate to not go ahead is foolish and would lead to the SANFL losing control of their own destiny.

SACA is going to let the SANFL keep all the money made from football made on the oval they own. Without getting any cut at all ??????? Thats not what i have heard as SACA is forecasting extra revenue from afl being played at Adelaide Oval.

If the SANFL is 100% committed for this to happen.

Why did they give the Labour gov 3 alternate venues six months ago they wanted to build.

If the SANFL sells West lakes and move to a new city stadium without SACAs involvement.
How would that be losing control of their destiny ?????

Or are people threatening to take the decision out of SANFL hands.


Sorry alot of this doesnt make sense to me,but yet again just my opinion.

[heater31]

SACA is going to let the SANFL keep all the money made from football made on the oval they own. Without getting any cut at all ??????? Thats not what i have heard as SACA is forecasting extra revenue from afl being played at Adelaide Oval.

If the SANFL is 100% committed for this to happen.

Why did they give the Labour gov 3 alternate venues six months ago they wanted to build.

If the SANFL sells West lakes and move to a new city stadium without SACAs involvement.
How would that be losing control of their destiny ?????

Or are people threatening to take the decision out of SANFL hands.

SOmething doesnt make sense yet again just my opinion.

could the extra $$$ be from taking a cut from the members dinining room on match days? surely that will tip a few thousand into the bank account from each game and add that up over the season......

[birdmanptr]

If the internet were around during the periods of Sturts and Ports dominance I wonder what would've been posted.

I agree with Barto here... while I understand people being bored with Centrals winning again and again and again, it's no different to what everyone went through during the 1950's (being sick of Port), 1960's and some of the 1970s (being sick of Sturt) and the late 1980's and 1990's (geez could Port actually give someone else a chance). At the same time, I think it would be silly of Central fans not to realise that for the benefit of the league, the domination needs to end.

For them, long may it go on, for everyone else, I'm sure we'd all like to see some different clubs compete for a few years at least, just for something different, if there's one thing the AFL did work out right (whether you like it or not), grannies and flags are shared around a fair bit in the national league and that keeps heaps of fans onside. Just look at 1970-1989, hardly any teams won a flag, from 1990 onwards, just about everyone has nabbed 1 or 2.

Centrals dominance does hurt the league a bit... but that's the other 7 clubs fault, not theirs.

Direct live coverage of the SANFL also hurts, I'd much rather see it delayed on ABC2 or ABC3. In fact, I'd like to see some sort of digital channel which just shows SANFL, WAFL, QAFL etc football, would be interesting, but that's me.

Awww you're making me feel guilty - us being all dominant Think I'll barrack for Norwood this week

Good luck to CDFC they are the biggest powerhouse the SANFL have had.I hope tghey win it again cause i dont care but lets face it they are simply to good.CDFC is the only team that can win the flag if one of the other 4 get up Centrals will have lost it not cause one of the other 4 win it