NAFC injunction on the SANFL re the Power

[Punk Rooster]

Football Department Spending 2008

_1. Sydney $16.9mil
_2. Collingwood $16.4
_3. West Coast $16.2
_4. Fremantle $15.2
_5. Hawthorn $15.1
_6. Geelong $15.1
_7. Brisbane $14.6
_8. St Kilda $14.3
_9. Melbourne $14.2
10. Adelaide $14.1
11. Carlton $13.6
12. Richmond $13.4
13. Port Adelaide $13.3
14. Essendon $13.2
15. Western Bulldogs $12.8
16. North Melbourne $12.7

Made a mistake, was 4th lowest, not 3rd.

the spending on this should be capped also... would certainly bring about an even competition..

[drebin]

Theyve been one of the lowest spenders in terms of salary cap as far as im aware and this year have $700k spare in the cap

$700K spare in the Salary Cap???? I find that very hard to believe especially when the coach is allegedly the highest paid in the AFL under his present contract at over $800K per year and many of the Assistant Coaches being paid at "way over the odds" if you believe all you hear! Throw in what they allelgedly paid Josh Carr to get him back (that is proving to be a big waste of money!) and you can understand why the SANFL Clubs have concerns about Port's business plan and spending when they throw money around on salaries like they do presently. To be fair though, it appears Chocko and his assistants are all getting a massive cut moving forward so that is at least a positive.

[smac]

Theyve been one of the lowest spenders in terms of salary cap as far as im aware and this year have $700k spare in the cap

$700K spare in the Salary Cap???? I find that very hard to believe especially when the coach is allegedly the highest paid in the AFL under his present contract at over $800K per year and many of the Assistant Coaches being paid at "way over the odds" if you believe all you hear! Throw in what they allelgedly paid Josh Carr to get him back (that is proving to be a big waste of money!) and you can understand why the SANFL Clubs have concerns about Port's business plan and spending when they throw money around on salaries like they do presently. To be fair though, it appears Chocko and his assistants are all getting a massive cut moving forward so that is at least a positive.

I think you find it hard to believe because it's not true. That's about 10% of the cap isn't it? If so they are obliged to pay more than that.

[drebin]

I think you find it hard to believe because it's not true. That's about 10% of the cap isn't it? If so they are obliged to pay more than that.

I thought that was the case but I was trying to be gentle on Macca!

[doggies4eva]

VEry valid points you make Doggies4eva. Unfortunately they are completely wasted on a supporter like Hondo. Youd have more luck getting Graham Cornes to concede.

Hondo believes these AFL clubs are absolute cash cows and nobody can convince him otherwise(even though Port $5 mill in debt standing to lose another $12mill).

I have tried for years to convince him they arent as profitable as we are led to believe. And that the current SANFL set up is completely wrong and will never work.

Youll hear Hondo make claims how the AFL clubs profits are good for the wider football community. Where SANFL clubs just work for themselves. But you have to believe when the very same AFL clubs make a loss it is to no detriment to anyone but that club. Profits good for everyone . Losses only bad to the individual club. So dont waste your breathe trying to get him to take a holistic view on things.

So why don't the SANFL clubs want to stop this money going to the Power or want the Power to fold if that's the best solution?

Where do you think the SANFL has found the $4m or so spare to distribute to the SANFL clubs each year since 1991?

I have told you many times that there's losses within the Power but profits being generated for the SANFL from their home games. Overall, I believe the SANFL are in front. Currently, they are not as in front as they should be and so I don't defend the management at the Power over the last 3 years that have created this current problem. It seems the amount of money required to fix the problem will impact the distributions to the SANFL clubs and that is disappointing. No argument there.

I do believe however, that this is a short term problem that will sort itself out over the coming years. The AFL will sign an astronomical TV deal next time around and some of that will find it's way into our SANFL comp eventually. Remember too that Port are not the only AFL club relying on hand-outs from someone right now.

And for the second time, I never said SANFL clubs don't support the local community. I don't even recall making a point that the AFL clubs do.

Hondo, isn't that what this whole thread is about - NA are trying to stop the money going to the Power!

I accept that in the past that the SANFL clubs have benefited from distributions - but if Port start making large losses these distributions will dry up.

Glad to hear that you are so optimistic that TV payments will solve all of the problems in the future. This industry is doing it tough at the moment - their revenue has decreased significantly due to less advertising due to the world economy. I think heavy reliance on this one source of revenue is the achilles heal of the AFL.

[doggies4eva]

Football Department Spending 2008

_1. Sydney $16.9mil
_2. Collingwood $16.4
_3. West Coast $16.2
_4. Fremantle $15.2
_5. Hawthorn $15.1
_6. Geelong $15.1
_7. Brisbane $14.6
_8. St Kilda $14.3
_9. Melbourne $14.2
10. Adelaide $14.1
11. Carlton $13.6
12. Richmond $13.4
13. Port Adelaide $13.3
14. Essendon $13.2
15. Western Bulldogs $12.8
16. North Melbourne $12.7

Made a mistake, was 4th lowest, not 3rd.

Looking at this list I find it funny that Eddy was squawking about Sydney's spending and Collingwood spends nearly as much in a city with lower cost of living

[Hondo]

Hondo, isn't that what this whole thread is about - NA are trying to stop the money going to the Power!

No they're not. That's the point. That was the rumour that started this thread but Bohdan has said publicly that all they want is answers to how Port's finances got so badly off track without them knowing so that the mistakes won't be repeated in the future.

The SANFL clubs know that they need the Crows and Power to be sustainable, financially viable entities. They need the revenues that the Power and Crows deliver to the SANFL. Have you heard one single SANFL club president repeating any of the crazy ideas spouted in these type of threads? ie, have they ever advocated abolishing the Power? That's the answer.

[Sojourner]

Glad to hear that you are so optimistic that TV payments will solve all of the problems in the future. This industry is doing it tough at the moment - their revenue has decreased significantly due to less advertising due to the world economy. I think heavy reliance on this one source of revenue is the achilles heal of the AFL.

There is a way to increase TV revenue and particuarly in this current climate I do think it will happen as a direct result, and that will be Crows and Power matches exclusivley on Foxtel...... Its not a case of if but when IMO!

[Macca19]

Theyve been one of the lowest spenders in terms of salary cap as far as im aware and this year have $700k spare in the cap

$700K spare in the Salary Cap???? I find that very hard to believe especially when the coach is allegedly the highest paid in the AFL under his present contract at over $800K per year and many of the Assistant Coaches being paid at "way over the odds" if you believe all you hear!

Your point would make sense if coaches and assistants were included in the salary cap. They arent. 'If you believe what you hear'....nice and factual there! The fact we are 4th lowest in football department spend I think shows that 'if you believe what you hear' may not be all that correct. In fact its the exact opposite.

[doggies4eva]

Hondo, isn't that what this whole thread is about - NA are trying to stop the money going to the Power!

No they're not. That's the point. That was the rumour that started this thread but Bohdan has said publicly that all they want is answers to how Port's finances got so badly off track without them knowing so that the mistakes won't be repeated in the future.

The SANFL clubs know that they need the Crows and Power to be sustainable, financially viable entities. They need the revenues that the Power and Crows deliver to the SANFL. Have you heard one single SANFL club president repeating any of the crazy ideas spouted in these type of threads? ie, have they ever advocated abolishing the Power? That's the answer.

Hondo I think that you are splitting hairs. North are unhappy that the losses have the potential of dragging the whole SANFL under and a new plan is required (as far as I can gleen). This seems to me to have the same end result of what I previously said.

[Macca19]

Theyve been one of the lowest spenders in terms of salary cap as far as im aware and this year have $700k spare in the cap

$700K spare in the Salary Cap???? I find that very hard to believe especially when the coach is allegedly the highest paid in the AFL under his present contract at over $800K per year and many of the Assistant Coaches being paid at "way over the odds" if you believe all you hear! Throw in what they allelgedly paid Josh Carr to get him back (that is proving to be a big waste of money!) and you can understand why the SANFL Clubs have concerns about Port's business plan and spending when they throw money around on salaries like they do presently. To be fair though, it appears Chocko and his assistants are all getting a massive cut moving forward so that is at least a positive.

I think you find it hard to believe because it's not true. That's about 10% of the cap isn't it? If so they are obliged to pay more than that.

The salary cap this year is $8.81m. $700k is not 10% of the cap obviously. $700k spare would be in the lower limits of what you need to pay.

[Hondo]

Hondo I think that you are splitting hairs. North are unhappy that the losses have the potential of dragging the whole SANFL under and a new plan is required (as far as I can gleen). This seems to me to have the same end result of what I previously said.

They aren't trying to stop the handout to the Power and they don't want the Power abolished. They want it better managed in future so that handouts don't need to be repeated.

If, to you, the NAFC's letter means more than that (ie, the whole structure of AFL footy in this state is wrong) then that's your speculation. I don't think the NAFC's issues are as complicated as that. As I hear it, they simply want explanations about the Power's current financial problems so they don't recur.

I don't think we need to be too alarmist at this early stage. Imagine if the CDFC were chopped from the comp or a Royal Commission launched into their financials during their dark days? Or the NAFC 10 years ago, West Coast Eagles in 1989, Footscray in mid 90s, etc, etc? You just need to make sure the right people are in place doing the right job and everyone work together to get the ship righted again. That was my impression from Bohdan's interview. Not that he wanted some massive overhaul of the system, just that the system we have actually work as it should (and, important point, as it has worked 1997-2004).

[Wedgie]

I don't think we need to be too alarmist at this early stage. Imagine if the CDFC were chopped from the comp or a Royal Commission launched into their financials during their dark days? Or the NAFC 10 years ago, West Coast Eagles in 1989, Footscray in mid 90s, etc, etc?

I don't remember the NAFC being handed millions of dollars, in fact I don't remember them being handed 1 cent.
I don't recall the NAFC being owned by SANFL clubs with those clubs being kept in the dark about it.
Completely irrelevent point.

[Hondo]

I don't think we need to be too alarmist at this early stage. Imagine if the CDFC were chopped from the comp or a Royal Commission launched into their financials during their dark days? Or the NAFC 10 years ago, West Coast Eagles in 1989, Footscray in mid 90s, etc, etc?

I don't remember the NAFC being handed millions of dollars, in fact I don't remember them being handed 1 cent.
I don't recall the NAFC being owned by SANFL clubs with those clubs being kept in the dark about it.
Completely irrelevent point.

I didn't say either of those things about the NAFC situation

I was trying to point out to d4eva that it's easy to make big calls when it's not your club in the $hit, that's all

No offence intended to the other clubs I mentioned. I think it's wrong that the SANFL clubs don't seem to able to get financial support when they've needed it.

[Wedgie]

I don't think we need to be too alarmist at this early stage. Imagine if the CDFC were chopped from the comp or a Royal Commission launched into their financials during their dark days? Or the NAFC 10 years ago, West Coast Eagles in 1989, Footscray in mid 90s, etc, etc?

I don't remember the NAFC being handed millions of dollars, in fact I don't remember them being handed 1 cent.
I don't recall the NAFC being owned by SANFL clubs with those clubs being kept in the dark about it.
Completely irrelevent point.

I didn't say either of those things about the NAFC situation

You made mention that clubs weren't cut from the comp or had Royal commissions when they were in financial dark days. If the Power were a standalone club only accountable to their members whilst no money was thrown at them none of us would expect a Royal Commission or worry about then being cut from the comp hence why your point is irrelevent.
Hondo you made your point early on and its one I'd respect if you had an insight into as many of the financial details as the SANFL clubs are now aware of.
The fact you're now going off on irrelevent tangents like this most recent one indicates to me you're now clutching at straws and should give it a rest my friend as your credibility is diving by the post.

[Hondo]

Hondo you made your point early on and its one I'd respect if you had an insight into as many of the financial details as the SANFL clubs are now aware of.
The fact you're now going off on irrelevent tangents like this most recent one indicates to me you're now clutching at straws and should give it a rest my friend as your credibility is diving by the post.

D4eva and I were interchanging views which was a debate I was enjoying

I was just rolling with the discussion and now you've chimed in and basically told me to STFU

If you've got insight or information that would add to the debate you should put it out their rather than having a crack at my credibility "because you know something I don't". FFS.

Tell us what you know. If anything I have said is obviously wrong then I'll say so. I always try to do that. You can't tell me other posters in this thread are going off full information about what's going on yet you're not picking them up on it?

[Wedgie]

If you've got insight or information that would add to the debate you should put it out their rather than having a crack at my credibility "because I know something you don't". FFS.

No I haven't but as I said before I'm pretty confident the SANFL clubs now have more information than yourself.
I understand your hypothetical point and I understood it the first time you posted it in that you think having Port around because the money they make the SANFL from Footy Park is more than they spend in getting bailed out and that in your opinion no other business could make money than Port in this respect.
I also understand the hypothetical opinion of others that with the upcoming projected losses that the bailouts wont be warranted and other or no business should be looked at.

I also understand that the thing that is annoying the SANFL clubs the most is the way the Commission has handled things.

I really dont need you to post 100 times or to go off on completely irrelevent ridiculous tangens to further make your point. You were articulate enough to state your position accurately many posts ago.

I won't crtiticise you for making a point which I and most others understood after your first post but I will criticise you when you go on and on and on about and start making ridiculous comparisons of clubs in completely different situations with completely different stakeholders who have had varying degress of assistance ranging from nothing to millions of dollars.

[Hondo]

Fair enough.

I think you'd agree that this PAFC topic has been done to death over the last 6 months and 5000 different threads and I'm probably not the only poster repeating myself though.

Feels like each time it comes up again someone new forgets the side revenue the Power generate for the SANFL ... there, I've said it again

I do reserve the right to disagree (or agree) with a post made by d4eva or anyone when they have directly quoted me

[doggies4eva]

I have been enjoying this debate too Hondo.

I don't really think we are that far apart. I am not seriously suggesting selling off the Port Power licence because I think the situation is repairable.

The key points are:

lack of transparency of SANFL commission.

The fact that SANFL whether it likes it or not is now bound to the AFL by financial pursestrings.

A huge loss by either Power or Crows would impact heavily on the SANFL.

[Hondo]

Yes, I think we are on the same page d4eva.

I have to shut up now