Crows in the SANFL - Q & A with the AFC

[Booney]

There is no growth now. Yes, some SANFL fans may switch to follow the Crows, that's impossible to stop, it;s reality. But we believe the overall numbers of people following the SANFL or being exposed to the SANFL will increase.

Hi David,
You acknowledge that at this point the SANFL is not growing.
You acknowledge that Adelaides reserves may take supporters away from an SANFL club to follow the Crows.
You somehow then from that gather crowd numbers will increase, when in reality it may simply be a shift from one SANFL club to Adelaide.
As part of your "market research" contemplated the following :
How many people will be lost to the SANFL as a result of an Adelaide reserves team being introduced and if so how does this compare to the numbers you "believe" will, for the first time ever, start going to SANFL games?

At this point when Adelaide play away at AFL level there would be Adelaide supporters go to an SANFL game to watch their club, be it Glenelg, Sturt or the Magpies.

By them now attending an Adelaide reserves game this has not increased numbers but simply shifted them.

So the only way crowds can increase is to attract new people to attend SANFL games and this is most likely every second week as, previously noted it would be of Adelaides preference to have the reserves play at the same time or as close as possible to the AFL side. Simple. Adelaide fans cant be in two places at once.

With Adelaides fan base having a large percentage of older patrons (dont deny that) it is unlikely the aged will have either the cash resources or the interest in attending two games in one weekend.

I, along with many others cant for one minute understand how the figure of 4000+ has been arrived at.

Is it possible for you to detail the process Adelaide FC went through to arrive at this figure.

[Ecky]

Do you believe that people who will follow the AFC reserves and attend their games will do so with the same passion that fans who currently support other SANFL clubs? Do you think there would be the same level of euphoria at the Crows Reserves winning a SANFL premiership that there would be if Glenelg won?

So even if there is a net increase in attendances due to the AFC reserves team's inclusion, how will this affect the soul of the SANFL? Or is this not important to you?

[Apachebulldog]

David as you might be aware the VFL across the border is absolutely stuffed because of AFL encroachment.

My question therefore is, will the AFC sign a legal document/agreement stipulating that if this concept of a reserves side becomes a failure and results in the loss of revenue to SANFl clubs the AFC must compensate each club for their financial losses ?????

[UK Fan]

14) is the reserves deemed a higher standard than the saafl?

Not by people at the Club who watch a lot of football. It’s not so much the overall standard, it’s the type of bodies and experience the players will come up against. A1 is full of former SA league and reserves players, and the overall quality is pretty good.

My question is why would you want to play regularly against "Former SA league and reserves players" in the SAAFL when you could play against current league (coming back from injury, out of a bit of form, quite ready to come back into the League team) and reserves players in the SANFL reserves?

Do u honestly believe you r fooling anyone with your bluff re Amatuers ????

What is preventing afc admitting SANFL reserves is the best place for your developement squad.its also the best win/win scenario for SA football ??? Are the crows really that selfish

Nothing to do with being selfish. If you don't want Adelaide involved in the league competition, I can assure you A1 it's not a bluff.

Are you trying to claim its more beneficial for sa football for your developement squad to play in Amatuers as opposed to SANFL reserves. How will you playing in Amatuers as opposed to SANFL reserves benefit SANFL clubs ???

Or is this purely an AFC stance against SANFL reserves to benefit you. So if your stance has been made without the best intrrest of sa football in mind how aren't you selfish ???

[Aerie]

There is no growth now. Yes, some SANFL fans may switch to follow the Crows, that's impossible to stop, it;s reality. But we believe the overall numbers of people following the SANFL or being exposed to the SANFL will increase.

If that doesn't ring alarm bells for the SANFL clubs, nothing will.

[areaman]

If it happened that way, the reality is that more kids would turn up. Surely having more kids interested and engaged in the game is better for SA footy.
If they live in the Central zone, their best option for their football career path is to plays through the grades at Central.

Yes.

SANFL club support is not really growing anyway. The majority of kids only follow AFL clubs, most of the interest in an SANFL clubs is passed down from parents. My boys follow the Eagles because I do. We get 1700 kids to a pie night, it would be great for SA footy if more of these kids are exposed to the SANFL, even if it is through the Crows. David

David, great to hear you are an Eagles fan.

Are you a member?

[FlyingHigh]

Gday David.
Still interested in your and the Crows thoughts on top-up players ideas posted earlier in this thread.

[stan]

Hi David,

A quick and easy one really. If you play in the SAAFL instead of the SANFL, can you explain to me how your players will be able to overcome the massive step up from SAAFL football to AFL.

Thanks,

Stan.

[Booney]

Hi David,

Just wondering. Do you still think it was a good idea to come on here and field questions?

[Sojourner]

What are the attendances when Essendon and Collingwood play each other in the Reserves? Is that a potential indicator in interest in a match between the AFC and an SANFL club?

[Jim05]

What are the attendances when Essendon and Collingwood play each other in the Reserves? Is that a potential indicator in interest in a match between the AFC and an SANFL club?

Ive been to a few, mostly when we were aligned with Bendigo and id say maybe 2000 tops.
I think this years drew about 1800.
The crowds are generally very poor.
Ive been to games at Windy Hill where there has been close to under 1000 and 3/4 of the crowd were Essendon members like myself who get free entry.
I can see why some clubs are in dire financial strife

[PhilH]

David here is the most important question.

Are your two youngsters free Eagles One members (I assume they are u13)?

[areaman]

David here is the most important question.

Are your two youngsters free Eagles One members (I assume they are u13)?

And will they support the Eagles or the Crows in the SANFL when push comes to shove?

[Apachebulldog]

Jim 05 i have also heard the North Melbourne also get free entry to their reserves games is that correct ???? if so why are crowd numbers very poor ??????

[Jim05]

Jim 05 i have also heard the North Melbourne also get free entry to their reserves games is that correct ???? if so why are crowd numbers very poor ??????

Dont know about all Melbourne clubs but I believe most AFL memberships entitle you to your clubs VFL home games only.
Crowds are fairly poor because in reality who wants to go and watch Ressies play?
Essendon has maybe 10-12 AFL listed players playing and half of them are garbage, the rest are either kids or delisted AFL players trying to earn another crack at league. Who wants to watch that crap every week
I go if im in Melbourne but if I lived there I wouldnt go every week.
The games are usually on differant days to the AFL side so how many people with families are prepared to give up their whole weekend to go to the footy on both days, im sure if I told my wife I was going to the footy Saturday and Sunday id be divorced ASAP
Only times ive been to games with a big crowd is of there is a drawcard, if say a Franklin, Rioli, Judd came back through the Ressies.

[Apachebulldog]

Hi David another question for you


Well well well the penny now has dropped how the AFC came up with the extra 4,000 footy fans at games.

David can you confirm or deny if your proposal gets the OK that AFC members will be entitiled to free entry to these SANFL games ?????

So stop beating around the bush and give us the truth

Thanks.

[sjt]

David wrote:

1-4: The WA model is completely different. Freo are aligned to Peel Thunder and West Coast are aligned with East Perth but AFL-listed players are still spread across all the WAFL clubs, so there is not much relevance to us at this stage. The financial model in WA footy is also completely different to here. But for the right to align with clubs, I believe the total package is worth about $75k from each AFL club. The AFC has been asked to keep our figures confidential at this stage but it will not be too far off this and it is addition to any payments for the transfer of our AFL licence and the Adelaide Oval agreement.
5): We don’t pay a dividend to the SANFL any more, as we did for about 20 years. We pay a set licence fee, which is $525,000 this year. The financial cost of a reserve side will be a cost for the AFC, no-one else.

David

Sjt wrote;

Hi David

To help clarify the above am I right in interpreting it as, at the moment you pay a license fee of $525,000 or $58,333 per club (as stated). Or do the Magpies not receive this so it's closer to $65,000 per club? Under the proposal to be able to use the SANFL with a reserves team, clubs would receive approximately $75,000 equating to an increase of $16,000 (or $10,000) more than current situation or "not too far off this"? Despite Olsen saying $80,000 sounded like a to generous a figure on what's expected.
Obviously this excludes the payments for the licence transfer and the Adelaide Oval agreement as these are happening anyway.
$10,000 (pittance) doesn't sound too attractive to me, though it would look very attractive to the Crows.

So currently the Crows pay each Club about $65k as a license fee? Potentially going forward the Crows may pay the clubs $10,000 more? Time to rush in and change the fabric of SA football given that offer!!

David wrote

Is it an integrity issue or a financial issue, you're confusing me? I've sent some answers to more of your earlier questions to Dutchy to post in a separate thread but you are clearly underestimating the impact on SANFL revenue that the AFL and the AFL clubs have and will continue to have even when the AFL clubs are playing at Adelaide Oval. David

SJT wrote;
David, I'll have a clearer understanding if you answer the simple question above. It shouldn't be confusing and there's no point answering a question with a question. As to whether it's an integrity or financial issue - obviously both are issues that raise questions. I wouldn't have thought it was too confusing. P.S apologise for the formatting I had to cut and paste as the question wasn't answered in the previous thread

I should have explained that better. I responded with the question because it seems to me the biggest issue for some SANFL fans is the integrity of the comp and yet some of these same fans want some extra $$$$ to seal the deal. Whatever the playing licence fee and package is, it would be on top of the top of the AFL licence transfer fees and the Adeliade Oval package. Yes, these will exist whether the Crows are in the reserves or not. But the playing licence fee/marketing dollars and any match revenue is on top of this and will not exist if we are not in the SANFL. David

Thanks for responding David. I'll take your response of "whatever the playing license fee is" as a yes to my question, even though I might have been too generous re what the crows are offering. There is a big difference also between revenue and profit David. Unfortunately there's always integrity issues involved when money is required. Just look at the afl draw and programming, betting company sponsors, clubs tanking or doing "clerical errors". Although I'd like complete integrity maintained, I'm a realist. If the crows were to pay each club $150,000 to play in our comp, though it would inhibit the integrity it may assist in a clubs longevity. More funding may mean the clubs can "counter" some of the numerous negatives, like the drop in crowds that would probably ensue.
My question is how many sanfl games did you and your family go to this year and if the reserves were in how many of those games would your family go to and why?

[adelaidefc]

If it happened that way, the reality is that more kids would turn up. Surely having more kids interested and engaged in the game is better for SA footy.
If they live in the Central zone, their best option for their football career path is to plays through the grades at Central.

Yes.

SANFL club support is not really growing anyway. The majority of kids only follow AFL clubs, most of the interest in an SANFL clubs is passed down from parents. My boys follow the Eagles because I do. We get 1700 kids to a pie night, it would be great for SA footy if more of these kids are exposed to the SANFL, even if it is through the Crows. David

David, great to hear you are an Eagles fan.

Are you a member?

No, I'm not

[adelaidefc]

David here is the most important question.

Are your two youngsters free Eagles One members (I assume they are u13)?

They are 17 and 15 but no they aren't.

[whufc]

While you are on here answering questions I would love to hear you reply to booneys question

How did you come to the figure of 4000 people to a crows reserves games

Remembering their are board members of these SANFL clubs who read this site and your ability to avoid questions speaks louder than the fluffy ones you answer