National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

[JK]

Excellent point Hazy

[StrayDog]

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Dogs not sold on national comp

[Dutchy]

Perhaps they should wait until they get more info before they comment?

> 4 extra games IF you make the GF
> Replaces the State game = 1 game back straight up
> Im sure the league fixture will be more spread out, less trial agmes and more 3 club byes
> The financial rewards will be worth giving up on the byes IMO not to mention the national exposure for players still trying to crack the AFL as well as the increased revenue stream for the club

[Big Phil]

Perhaps they should wait until they get more info before they comment?

> 4 extra games IF you make the GF
> Replaces the State game = 1 game back straight up
> Im sure the league fixture will be more spread out, less trial agmes and more 3 club byes
> The financial rewards will be worth giving up on the byes IMO not to mention the national exposure for players still trying to crack the AFL as well as the increased revenue stream for the club

But they were asked to comment on it and at this point in time, that is how the club feels. With it being such big news from an SANFL point of view, would look pretty poor if they just towed the 'no comment' line.

[PhilH]

Kris Grant is right to get the full story before giving it full support

He has a duty of care to the club and its membership not to commit to something like this without all the facts.

Personally I think its a great idea .... but to make it a successful reality all the objections & questions need to be raised and then the organisers need the opportunity to address them.

Obviously the scheduling and impact on their #1 priority (SANFL competition) being a major issues.

Finances are important to cross i's and dot t's as well.

Interestingly he said there would be 4 games, that is only if its a 16 team comp.


Besides scheduling and finance questions my two other questions would be ;

- What kind of atmosphere would say a Norwood v Claremont game at AAMI Stadium provide as oppossed to one at Coopers given only one supporter base will turn up? (remember other 8 SANFL clubs are playing same weekend).

- What is the AFL hoping to achieve out of this long term? They have hardly been supporters of state league football in the past (scheduling Sat Afternoon AFL including Showdowns in SA & WA being an example). Why the sudden focus?

[Dutchy]

Perhaps they should wait until they get more info before they comment?

> 4 extra games IF you make the GF
> Replaces the State game = 1 game back straight up
> Im sure the league fixture will be more spread out, less trial agmes and more 3 club byes
> The financial rewards will be worth giving up on the byes IMO not to mention the national exposure for players still trying to crack the AFL as well as the increased revenue stream for the club

But they were asked to comment on it and at this point in time, that is how the club feels. With it being such big news from an SANFL point of view, would look pretty poor if they just towed the 'no comment' line.

Thats fine but they would have also added a couple of positives also to balance it

[Dogsbody]

> Replaces the State game = 1 game back straight up

Great... so while our clubs get a shot at a national title, we have to bury the SA jumper while we're at it.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooo

[whufc]

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Dogs not sold on national comp

Like i said absolute no surprise to see Central slightly against it, Kris Grant has been against all outside competition for a while now and i cant see him changing his stance as the game would also still conicide with the SANFL comp.

Also cant see this comp earning alot of prestige as players wouldnt even be able to celebrate a GF win as they would have a game 7 days later and finals coming up.

If Central are to participate i cant see it being with more than a glorified reserves side.

[Dogmatic]

Will the offers get better or worse if they don't sign up straight away?

[SimonH]

Completely agree PhilH, these games need to be at the local grounds in front of the local supporters (or at worst for the Adelaide-based games, at Adelaide Oval). Foxtel may not know it now, but it's in their interests too-- casual viewers will watch a game that appears to be in a cauldron environment where you can hear the roar of the crowd, and skim past a game where a few fans are lost in a large corporate stadium where the TV cameras scan past rows and rows of empty seats.

If that's even a remote possibility, the big question is whether local ovals are capable of providing the facilities that Foxtel would need for the quality of coverage they're looking to provide (I love ABC's SANFL coverage, but for Foxtel to bring in the audience they need to make this worthwhile, there's no doubt it would have to be another step up in terms of production values, and closer to the very slick and expensive AFL match TV coverage). At Norwood oval, the TV cameras are on some boards suspended (not sure whether temporarily or semi-permanently) above some disused grandstand seating; the commentary 'box' is more or less in the open air if I remember rightly (under the grandstand roof, o'course). And Norwood is one of the better suburban home grounds in terms of facilities. Some upgrades may be in order; which is swell if Foxtel will pay for them.

[SimonH]

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Dogs not sold on national comp

I don't have a problem with anything Kris Grant said. They're in it for Centrals, on-field and off-field, as they should be. Reading between the lines, I think he's virtually conceding that it's a fait accompli if the AFL, Foxtel and SANFL are all behind it, and he principally wants greater concessions in terms of scheduling, for those teams that do take part.

In the 1970s and 1980s (and doubtless for many decades before), clubs and their players had to toil away for potentially 26 weeks in a row (inc finals) without a break. That was accepted-- that was just footy. If individual players got sore and sorry as a result, they either played through the injury, or didn't.

However, now that the clubs have got used to giving their players 3 weeks off a year (5 weeks if you're a Dogs fan), and factor that into their player and injury management, they've gotten kind of attached to it and won't give it up without a fight.

At the end of the day, any club is allowed to pick any 21 they want to. If the comp does go ahead, and when it's their turn to play Centrals decide to rest 10 of their best/oldest players and give the best of the 2nds a chance to show what they've got, then that's their choice. They may not win, but I'm pretty sure that they'd make a decent accounting of themselves and the jumper.

[Hazydog]

I guess there is two ways of looking at this proposal. If it is to be hastily concocted event with only a short term future, then SANFl clubs will be understandably reluctant to commit. However if the AFL & Foxtel are serious about this becoming a long term arrangement, then the SANFL need to be prepared to look at the possibility of restructuring or even making some radical changes to way our comp is run, in order to combine both events.

[whufc]

I would love for this comp to go ahead as i couldnt think of anything than going interstate with a few of my mates to watch a serious Dogs game BUT these questions are always going to remain.

TIMING- when will the comp be played, at the end of the day there is no good time to play such a comp.

PRESTIGE- how will the comp earn prestige when the GF would be played leading into clubs finals series. You could imagine speech after GF 'yeah its great to win BUT we got a game coming up this saturday so we will be concerntrating on that.'

SEMI PRO PLAYERS- these players are semi proffesional IF Central were to play Claremont on a Saturday afternoon would all players be able to get friday and sunday off of work for travelling time, i know alot of players do work both these days and find it hard to get any extra days off as they already require alot of days off.

SALARY CAP SQUAD SIZES- clubs involved would be playing a possible extra 4 games there is already concern over player welfare, would the sides involved be given larger salary cap to build larger squads, the teams not participating wouldnt be overly impressed would they.

Just some thoughts of a few little things that i think may be of major concern and fairly hard to resolve.

[Dogmatic]

Be wary of where this may head, it could have some serious consequences for the clubs who are not involved.
Look at the European & UEFA Cups they seem to have emphasis place on them than the EPL. The top teams are regularly not putting their best team on the park in the lead up to the big Euro matches.
If the National 2nd tier Competition is successful they may want to expand it in year 2 and have a round robin type setup before knock out finals.
If it is going to make money for all stakeholders involved the SANFL will become a 3rd rate competition.

[Sojourner]

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Dogs not sold on national comp

As far as I can tell there is no compulsion for any club to have to participate, if Central dont want to play in the competition they can opt out and the opportunity could be passed on to the next side in the league that wishes to participate. Considering the national exposure for their sponsor/s, I would think it unlikely that any side would opt out of it as to do so would significantly damage their credibility with that sponsor group.

[CK]

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Dogs not sold on national comp

As far as I can tell there is no compulsion for any club to have to participate, if Central dont want to play in the competition they can opt out and the opportunity could be passed on to the next side in the league that wishes to participate. Considering the national exposure for their sponsor/s, I would think it unlikely that any side would opt out of it as to do so would significantly damage their credibility with that sponsor group.

In that case, if the top four clubs all said no, does that open it for Sturt, West etc to participate? Would be interesting to see how that would work in terms of playing games against some of the other interstate clubs.

[whufc]

From AdNow:-

Dogs not sold on national comp

As far as I can tell there is no compulsion for any club to have to participate, if Central dont want to play in the competition they can opt out and the opportunity could be passed on to the next side in the league that wishes to participate. Considering the national exposure for their sponsor/s, I would think it unlikely that any side would opt out of it as to do so would significantly damage their credibility with that sponsor group.

Honestly i cant see Central participating in this comp, and if we were to i think it would be with a side full of reserves and under 18's.

That would be another issue if this comp is being formed in conjuction with the AFL would Central be allowed to wear Holden on the front of their guernsey with Toyota being the major sponsor of the AFL.

I couldnt see the comp working if clubs could pass as the whole point of it being the state league elite would be mute if you had the second and thirds SA side, the first and third WA side, it is meant to be the best of the best.

[Mad Mat]

I would love for this comp to go ahead as i couldnt think of anything than going interstate with a few of my mates to watch a serious Dogs game BUT these questions are always going to remain.

TIMING- when will the comp be played, at the end of the day there is no good time to play such a comp.

PRESTIGE- how will the comp earn prestige when the GF would be played leading into clubs finals series. You could imagine speech after GF 'yeah its great to win BUT we got a game coming up this saturday so we will be concerntrating on that.'

SEMI PRO PLAYERS- these players are semi proffesional IF Central were to play Claremont on a Saturday afternoon would all players be able to get friday and sunday off of work for travelling time, i know alot of players do work both these days and find it hard to get any extra days off as they already require alot of days off.

SALARY CAP SQUAD SIZES- clubs involved would be playing a possible extra 4 games there is already concern over player welfare, would the sides involved be given larger salary cap to build larger squads, the teams not participating wouldnt be overly impressed would they.

Just some thoughts of a few little things that i think may be of major concern and fairly hard to resolve.

I wouldn't think this would be an issue for centrals

[Dutchy]

That would be another issue if this comp is being formed in conjuction with the AFL would Central be allowed to wear Holden on the front of their guernsey with Toyota being the major sponsor of the AFL.

I couldnt see the comp working if clubs could pass as the whole point of it being the state league elite would be mute if you had the second and thirds SA side, the first and third WA side, it is meant to be the best of the best.

Would the CDFC seriously want to be represented on the National stage by Reserves and Under 18 players?

The sponsorship thing isnt an issue - Ford and Mazda both have had long term sponsorship deals with Cats and Roos. Plus I dont think the AFL will be involved in this much at all, its a FOXTEL and local leagues initiative.

In fact clubs may choose to sell off the major sponsorship for this comp adding another revenue stream for the club.

[whufc]

That would be another issue if this comp is being formed in conjuction with the AFL would Central be allowed to wear Holden on the front of their guernsey with Toyota being the major sponsor of the AFL.

I couldnt see the comp working if clubs could pass as the whole point of it being the state league elite would be mute if you had the second and thirds SA side, the first and third WA side, it is meant to be the best of the best.

Would the CDFC seriously want to be represented on the National stage by Reserves and Under 18 players?

The sponsorship thing isnt an issue - Ford and Mazda both have had long term sponsorship deals with Cats and Roos. Plus I dont think the AFL will be involved in this much at all, its a FOXTEL and local leagues initiative.

In fact clubs may choose to sell off the major sponsorship for this comp adding another revenue stream for the club.

That would be the way to go, similar to what A-League clubs do in the Asian Champions league,

In all seriousness Dutchy, i dont think Kris Grant is that bothered about being 'seen' on the national stage, he has been quoted many times especially in the local messenger that the CDFC is in the business of winning the CDFC SANFL premierships when asked about these type games, tournament, not enough CDFC players being drafted etc etc.

Kris Grant has also been a massive fan of the bye in the SANFL giving interstate players the oppurtunity to return home for a week as well as local players a chance to get back to their home clubs.

Apart from financial gain there isnt really alot of incentive for Central vs Burnie before a Port Adelaide vs Richmond game at AAMI Stadium when the players could have the bye.