The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[therisingblues]

In fact the AFL needs the SANFL far more than they need a team like the crows or the power as they are all but franchises that can be replaced. A little bit of short term pain but definetly replaceable.

Very good point.
The success of the Crows proves that a side can be created from nothing with no supporters, to a state phenomenon with a membership of 50,000 plus. Had those 50,000 turn coats simply refused to follow the AFL and stayed with their SANFL side, as we did, we wouldn't be in this mess. They preferred to follow a side made from nothing over teams they'd followed their whole lives.

I have never been able to get my head around that!

Judging by your icons, you haven't refused to follow the AFL, you've just continued to follow a non SA based side, so I think its a bit rich for you to be suggesting others should have refused to follow the AFL, when you do yourself.
There's nothing wrong with following a Vic AFL side (apart form how they are travelling ATM:)), but similarly, there's nothing wrong with South Australians following a new South Australian side.
One thing I would ask, are you suggesting SA should have NOT created AFL sides at all ?

Your question: That's a different topic and I haven't said it above.

The rest of your post: Basically we were dragged kicking and screaming into the VFL/AFL, those around at the time would remember the polls conducted in The News and The Advertiser, 90% of respondents were dead against joining. Some people wrote extra comments on the questionnaire slip, about how much they hate the idea.
When Port tried to join, obviously opinions from at least one club's supporters (no pun intended), changed their view and when the Crows came in SANFL crowds went down.
This is what I don't understand, not so much that people support an AFL side, but they choose to do that instead of following their SANFL side.
I follow Carlton, but I followed Sturt first, and that's where my loyalty lies.

[therisingblues]

In fact the AFL needs the SANFL far more than they need a team like the crows or the power as they are all but franchises that can be replaced. A little bit of short term pain but definetly replaceable.

Very good point.
The success of the Crows proves that a side can be created from nothing with no supporters, to a state phenomenon with a membership of 50,000 plus. Had those 50,000 turn coats simply refused to follow the AFL and stayed with their SANFL side, as we did, we wouldn't be in this mess. They preferred to follow a side made from nothing over teams they'd followed their whole lives.

I have never been able to get my head around that!

So much lol.

First things first, people under about 30 have never known anything different to the crows being in the AFL.

Secondly not all people followed the vfl as well as the sanfl. Or they may not have followed or closely.

Wouldn't it follow then that if there was a brand new south Aussie team that they could get behind, in a comp that is better than the sanfl, that they would do that, as well as they continue to follow their sanfl team in a LOWER comp?

Your statement is so ridiculous that it hardly deserved comment but I had to...

And well done timmy for bringing some sense back to this conversation.

DId you somehow miss that I was talking about the time the Crows were formed?
How the hell was I talking about people under 30?
Think about it mate…
Was the VFL better than the SANFL? Debatable. In that era SA dominated Victoria at state level.

You see my comment as ridiculous as you just cannot see the other side, and probably never will.

[bennymacca]

If a full south Aussie state of origin team played every week vs Victoria at the same time as the blues of either variety, would you go support them?

(Not suggesting the crows are a state team, just trying to concoct a "higher" comp than the afl)

[therisingblues]

Good question. I reckon I'd watch Sturt first. South Australia second and Carlton third.
Fortunately never had to make such a choice.

[bennymacca]

I think you will find some people did make that choice in 1991

[spell_check]

I'd like to find a site which contains all of the AFL players on the Crows and Power lists to do this for all years from 1991. I can only find last years, so here it is, the number of AFL listed players per side per round last year:

[therisingblues]

And if all those people, here in SA and WA saw it for the sham it was, the whole system would have collapsed.
The Crows are a made up side from SA, those that think it is/was the state side are/were deluded.
Vics didn't have enough money to survive without the rest of us…why the hell did we join on their terms? Why did so many support it?

Hang on…why am I explaining all this to you? You think its ridiculous!

[Bounce of the ball]

I think you will find some people did make that choice in 1991

I think you will find that is his point.

[LPH]

DId you somehow miss that I was talking about the time the Crows were formed?
How the hell was I talking about people under 30?
Think about it mate…
Was the VFL better than the SANFL? Debatable. In that era SA dominated Victoria at state level.

You see my comment as ridiculous as you just cannot see the other side, and probably never will.

The VFL was better @ that time - & I loved the State of Origin Games, & winning them.
By '86 we had lost: Kernahan, Bradley, Platten, Motley, Fielke, Hughes, Bolton (although he was originally a Vic), Lindner, McGinneth, etc.
By '87, on top of these, we had lost: Leslie, Rogers, Naley, Symonds, Antrobus, Anderson

We were losing our best players to the $$$ offered over the border - as were WA.

The 'Player Retention Scheme' was introduced to try to curb that migration of players but apart from McIntosh & McDermott, it failed.
In fact Rudi Mandamaker (a Victorian) was on that scheme!

I agree that the 'rush' to join was a result of Port Adelaide's Bruce Webber - we hoped it would be a 'State Team' & initially it was, somewhat. But we were duped into thinking it would continue - as it hasn't, our best kids still go interstate.

[LPH]

And if all those people, here in SA and WA saw it for the sham it was, the whole system would have collapsed.
The Crows are a made up side from SA, those that think it is/was the state side are/were deluded.
Vics didn't have enough money to survive without the rest of us…why the hell did we join on their terms? Why did so many support it?

Hang on…why am I explaining all this to you? You think its ridiculous!

No doubt about that but, the advent of the West Coast Eagles was the 'death knell' for the SANFL & WAFL.
As soon as WA entered, the writing was on the wall.
What shits me the most is the extra Clubs were required to pay a license fee of $4 Million!!!
All that did was keep those pathetically performing Clubs (off field) like Nth Melbourne, St Kilda, Melbourne, Richmond, Footscray, Fitzroy & Sydney afloat. Although Sydney were required, the VFL should've been forced to either merge or cull those Clubs before WA & SA joined. But Oakley was very clever in negotiating the WCE deal.

[Jim05]

DId you somehow miss that I was talking about the time the Crows were formed?
How the hell was I talking about people under 30?
Think about it mate…
Was the VFL better than the SANFL? Debatable. In that era SA dominated Victoria at state level.

You see my comment as ridiculous as you just cannot see the other side, and probably never will.

The VFL was better @ that time - & I loved the State of Origin Games, & winning them.
By '86 we had lost: Kernahan, Bradley, Platten, Motley, Fielke, Hughes, Bolton (although he was originally a Vic), Lindner, McGinneth, etc.
By '87, on top of these, we had lost: Leslie, Rogers, Naley, Symonds, Antrobus, Anderson

We were losing our best players to the $$$ offered over the border - as were WA.

The 'Player Retention Scheme' was introduced to try to curb that migration of players but apart from McIntosh & McDermott, it failed.
In fact Rudi Mandamaker (a Victorian) was on that scheme!

I agree that the 'rush' to join was a result of Port Adelaide's Bruce Webber - we hoped it would be a 'State Team' & initially it was, somewhat. But we were duped into thinking it would continue - as it hasn't, our best kids still go interstate.

Would of got more supporters if the team wasnt led by that wanker Cornes who just filled the side with his Glenelg bum buddies

[dedja]

Still pissed that Norwood didn't have the guts to pull the trigger like Port did?

[Jim05]

Still pissed that Norwood didn't have the guts to pull the trigger like Port did?

Nup, never wanted Norwood to go into the AFL. Seeing what the Magpies have become only justifies my thinking.
Doubt very much that I would of supported Norwood had they entered the AFL

[Bounce of the ball]

Still pissed that Norwood didn't have the guts to pull the trigger like Port did?

Nah not them.

[bennymacca]

I think you will find some people did make that choice in 1991

I think you will find that is his point.

agree, but what i am taking exception to is the fact that he is calling it a sham. of course it isnt.

[therisingblues]

Well the VFL was doing okay, until it got talent greedy and spent beyond its means.
After that they needed bailing out, by the WAFL and the SANFL.
So just putting the figures together, why did we join THEIR model? We paid the cash that saved their comp', they were in a huge shit pickle without the bail out. Shouldn't they've come around, hat in hand, requesting terms from us?
Sham.

[CUTTERMAN]

I agree Theri. They played the greed and ego card and some chestbeaters in power fell for it. Once WA folded the gig was up. In my mind we already had a national model partially in place in the Champions of Australia comps. It could've been expanded quite easily, salary caps implemented, a draft or transfer system, equitable national funding and either a promotion and relegation system or conferences.

One thing that $hits me a bit though are mates who are a avid SANFL supporters and blame Adelaide (or Port) for all SANFL woes, yet at the same time they're members of a Victorian AFL club. It's a bit rich to hear them blaming Adelaide for the reserves debacle while they're pumping cash into a club that has been prostituting VFL clubs and propping up a team in the one organisation (AFL) that has been the main eroding factor of the SANFL comp.
Their excuses for it are laughable.

[hereselmo1]

Wedgie, you cant blame The power or The Crows, they both want whats best for their club, and if the dumb arses that gave it to them agreed to it, how can you blame them. The only thing that annoys me is when their supporters are quetioned about the unfair advantage granted to them, they argue as if there is no advantage. What drugs are they on to even deny the fact their is an enormous advantage. Power supporters should just accept that where handed a gift but why should they give it back, if it was my team I would be over the moon.

It's very clear now that Port has such an unfair advantage that this season will finish in a farce on GF day.

It actually would be more of a farce if they do not win the flag, cause if they don't it will mean they are resting players in the finals, post Power exit, which I can see happening

You're assuming an early Power exit Dutchy?

I know we lost to your boys but...

[Macca19]

And here we go again, Port Adelaide pushing the blame elsewhere, just like previous issues like -

"SANFL forced us to keep the Magpies and move them to Ethelton"
"SANFL screwed us on the Footy Park stadium deal"

You agreed to it FFS!!!! You signed on the bottom line!!!!

Actually, muppet, the agreements havent been signed and are up for review in July. You can expect them to change if Adelaide made no money out of a 50k crowd.

[Dogwatcher]

I agree Theri. They played the greed and ego card and some chestbeaters in power fell for it. Once WA folded the gig was up. In my mind we already had a national model partially in place in the Champions of Australia comps. It could've been expanded quite easily, salary caps implemented, a draft or transfer system, equitable national funding and either a promotion and relegation system or conferences.

One thing that $hits me a bit though are mates who are a avid SANFL supporters and blame Adelaide (or Port) for all SANFL woes, yet at the same time they're members of a Victorian AFL club. It's a bit rich to hear them blaming Adelaide for the reserves debacle while they're pumping cash into a club that has been prostituting VFL clubs and propping up a team in the one organisation (AFL) that has been the main eroding factor of the SANFL comp.
Their excuses for it are laughable.

I guess I fit that category.
As a Collingwood supporter AND a Willimstown supporter, as I have been since I was a kid, I have always disliked the 'VFL' model and hence why I believe there should be either a SEFL for AFL reserves, which would include Adelaide and Port, or for the Victorian AFL clubs to have their own reserves competition and allow Port Melbourne, Frankston, Willy etc to return to being the VFA.