WHO WILL WALK IF - Crows/Port Reserves discussion

[CENTURION]

don't we have different rules in the SANFL than in the AFL? how will the poor buggers adjust?

[DOC]

So JamesH you are suggesting that Sturt and perhaps West should go down the Torrens path and quit rather than opting to grip to life.

That might make you feel better to see other sides quit but that is hardly the point to the loyal Sturt people. To suggest that they should perhaps quit for the betterment of the league (which is its member clubs) then I for one want no part of it. The SANFL exists for its member clubs to compete in order to win the SANFL premiership.

If Sturt "allign" with the crows or "merge" with anyone else, the reality is that as the Sturt Football club they no longer exist. They will have quit.

The SANFL and its clubs own the two AFL licenses. The two AFL clubs don't own the SANFL or its clubs.

[rd]

If Sturt become the Crows Reserves team I'd go along to Sturt games for starters to test the water. But if Sturt are playing Norwood for top spot and Josh Jenkins has ten goals at 3/4 time with scores level AND the Crows decide Jenkins has to sit out the last quarter of the game to be rested - well not only would that would kill the game but possibly the support of a lot of Sturt fans like me! Why pay membership money to the Sturt club which would not care for SANFL success? I'm not a Crows member - just an occasional attendee at their games. Give me the SANFL atmosphere any day!

[LPH]

I have long held the belief that the SANFL Clubs (Port excluded because I think they would support it) should vote NO & tell the Cows & PAPs to bugger off.
Sell the licences back to the 2 clubs - then the financial woes become the AFL's problem, not the SANFL's.
Continue to play as the 2nd tier competition, autonomously.
Develop a local ground (into a mini Kadinia Park with seating & standing room) & make that the home of the SANFL.
Leave Adelaide Oval to the GAYFL entities.
The WA model is flawed IMHO.
It appears that this is the desired outcome here too, with Port & another Club.
I would be likely to give up my membership & spend the money somewhere else - perhaps Adelaide United.

[wild dog]

according to Bouncedown 2013 WCE & Fre will pay $450,000 each per season to align with a WAFL club. if they align with two clubs up the this could be a nice little earner for the league.

the catch 22 for the league is Sturt are worth 3,500 people at the gate.... so if the blues take the plunge things need to be done delicately and transparently so these people are not lost. My greatest fear is that Sturt and West decide opt to grip to life and end up in the state of the old West Torrens - with very little to look forward to.

Yes but Freemantle have a support base and are viable. Port Power are not. They cant pay their own way. Your suggestion that we roll over to the AFL and let them compromise our comp is premature. The league may still be able to work through this with their own little earner. Remember the WAFL did not have the assets that the SANFL have.

[Failed Creation]

Seeing as my club would be one of the ressies sides I would not go. What's the point of going each week to support an AFL reserves side.

Spot on. Surely it's about time the AwFuL resurrects the Reserves competition. There'd be no better time to do it, with record profits recorded...

That way, state leagues can return to being good second tier competitions, and not just vehicles for other clubs' interests. For this reason, I can handle the SANFL being a little weaker in standard (it has been since 1991 anyway). I have absolutely ZERO interest in the Power, and certainly will not be watching their reserves side, if that's what the Magpies become.

[whufc]

Seeing as my club would be one of the ressies sides I would not go. What's the point of going each week to support an AFL reserves side.

Spot on. Surely it's about time the AwFuL resurrects the Reserves competition. There'd be no better time to do it, with record profits recorded...

That way, state leagues can return to being good second tier competitions, and not just vehicles for other clubs' interests. For this reason, I can handle the SANFL being a little weaker in standard (it has been since 1991 anyway). I have absolutely ZERO interest in the Power, and certainly will not be watching their reserves side, if that's what the Magpies become.

I'm surprised the AFL hasnt tried to creat a NRL Toyoto Cup style comp.

Would suit Foxtel down to a t!

[JamesH]

So JamesH you are suggesting that Sturt and perhaps West should go down the Torrens path and quit rather than opting to grip to life.

That might make you feel better to see other sides quit but that is hardly the point to the loyal Sturt people. To suggest that they should perhaps quit for the betterment of the league (which is its member clubs) then I for one want no part of it. The SANFL exists for its member clubs to compete in order to win the SANFL premiership.

If Sturt "allign" with the crows or "merge" with anyone else, the reality is that as the Sturt Football club they no longer exist. They will have quit.

The SANFL and its clubs own the two AFL licenses. The two AFL clubs don't own the SANFL or its clubs.

Lets not always assume it will Sturt.

I think you will find the SANFL clubs dont legally own anything... not even the nickname of their club - it was all signed over to SANFL which replaced its structure with the SAFC.

There comes a time when pragmatism needs to rule - the structure will change: Football Park is going, the AFL licenses are being sold off, new funding models are required, the SANFL has a lot of red ink but a valuable bit of land. You can either the money to one of these clubs to piss up the wall now or put a structure in place that stand the test of time.

Woodville and Torrens made a brave decision in 1990 when they knew the environment was changing. It is changing once again - does anyone have the balls

[dedja]

have the balls to do what exactly?

[JamesH]

have the balls to do what exactly?

strop trying to live off of pokies & chook raffles and accept the reality that state league costs have gone up but not at the same rate as income.

I would rather see alignments than liquidators ever move in on a club

[dedja]

Agree on the dependency on pokies, but income still has to come from somewhere, even if mergers occur ...

[JamesH]

Personally.... I would rather not see mergers or alignments...... just a reduction in salary cap to bring an end to the plundering of Victorian clubs. Hopefully this could ease a bit of pressure on some clubs and allow them to get on the road to recovery. Let those that play for cash go to the country of 'Amateurs'..... the league will adjust.

Im looking at the WAFL yearbook and most players are from WA - which is good for WA footy.

[dedja]

I don't see the salary cap as being the issue ... at around $360K it is still modest.

A reduction to $250K say will not save the likes of Sturt or West who posted much bigger loses that that proposed reduction in the salary cap.

SANFL clubs generally are frugal with their finances, and there isn't much, if any, fat to cut, so costs can't really be reduced in most cases. The only exception is player salaries, but I'd fear that reducing it further will make it exceedingly difficult to keep some quality players in the SANFL system.

We have seen quality players 'retire' from the SANFL in the last few years when they are still in or near their prime. Also, some up and coming SANFL players just give up and go to where they can earn much more money for far less training effort.

It's a severe catch-22 situation.

To ensure that SANFL clubs are sustainable, the income stream needs to be dependable and manageable, but this is a real challenge for most clubs.

If the SANFL can leverage their West Lakes assets as a future fund as they are proposing, then there is some chance all clubs can survive.

There is no easy answer to this.

Unfortunately Sturt are extremely vulnerable due to their lack of assets ... I really don't know how they can get out of the hole they're in.

If the Crows and Port get their way and AFL reserves team are introduced into the SANFL, the spiral will continue further as genuine longtime SANFL supporters who are the lifeline of clubs will be severely alienated.

Who knows, maybe it will be the beginning of the end.

[JamesH]

My greatest fear is:
the Crows come in as team 10
The Magpies are fully absorbed by the Power
West and Sturt get left with NO options

you are right Sturt are extremely vulnerable - at least West can sell their club
At lot of clubs still rely on gambling money
My understand is South are in a good situation

There are no obvious mergers (like Woodville and Torrens), not many options to 'trim the fat', revenue is unlikely to increase as SANFL exposure decreases.

You may be right that smart investment of the FP money may be the last roll of the dice of the SANFL as we know it.

The league needs to make sure it doesnt become like the VFL and at worst ends up like the WAFL.

[Doddy]

Unfortunately Sturt are extremely vulnerable due to their lack of assets ...

This is my fear for the SANFL overall - once the AFL licences are sold off, and neither AFL club uses AAMI stadium, where do the significant revenues come from? They end up with some land assets whcih they intend to sell, but ongoing revenues? The distribution from the SMA looks flaky, or at least not as certain as a return on your own asset. I don't see much that will sustain our competition, which is the purpose/mission of the SANFL isn't it?

[dedja]

The SANFL is intending to do a combination of land sell off and development of West Lakes, so there will be an ongoing revenue stream, as well as keeping some of the assets.

[bays2011]

Was at Port Melbourne's first home game last year when they unfurled the flag no atmosphere and hardly anyone there.seen more at a West v South game. That what it will become if the AFL have their say. AFL players in the alignment sides only play for themselves. Have first hand knowledge of this and the non AFL players are treated like 2nd class citizens in their own club with the alignments. Coaches are appointed by the the AFL clubs and have no interest in most non AFL players and blame them when they don't win. This is fact!!!

If the Crows & Power want reserves teams go play in the VFL and leave the SANFL alone.

Just watch the destruction in the two years of the WAFL not a lot of happy clubs there.

Could this be why AFL Victoria no longer publish attendance figures?

If there are reserves sides in the SANFL that will be it for me, I will be done with the SANFL. 2 matches every round will be little more than trial matches. Joke.

[DOC]

Personally.... I would rather not see mergers or alignments...... just a reduction in salary cap to bring an end to the plundering of Victorian clubs. Hopefully this could ease a bit of pressure on some clubs and allow them to get on the road to recovery. Let those that play for cash go to the country of 'Amateurs'..... the league will adjust.

Im looking at the WAFL yearbook and most players are from WA - which is good for WA footy.

So the South Australian clubs should have a salary cap reduction in order to assist Port Melbourne from your perspective.

The reason the Crows came about was due to the plundering of the SANFL by the then VFL who changed their name in 1987 but little else. Plundering by the SA clubs ? I think its more like the end result of determined clubs to exist as best they can. Bit hard to see the reversal as anything but karma.

You are well known for your anti SANFL views and the constant derogatory remarks about South Australians and their ways, referring to them as blinkered and insular(eg: they, South Australians, still think they have the second best league when in reality it is the most boring.)

Reserve teams belong in a reserve competition. The SANFL clubs belong in the SANFL competition. The magpies are no longer members. They saw it fit to go to the national competition. Their choice. The other 8 can stand alone.

[heater31]

Personally.... I would rather not see mergers or alignments...... just a reduction in salary cap to bring an end to the plundering of Victorian clubs. Hopefully this could ease a bit of pressure on some clubs and allow them to get on the road to recovery. Let those that play for cash go to the country of 'Amateurs'..... the league will adjust.

Im looking at the WAFL yearbook and most players are from WA - which is good for WA footy.

So the South Australian clubs should have a salary cap reduction in order to assist Port Melbourne from your perspective.

The reason the Crows came about was due to the plundering of the SANFL by the then VFL who changed their name in 1987 but little else. Plundering by the SA clubs ? I think its more like the end result of determined clubs to exist as best they can. Bit hard to see the reversal as anything but karma.

You are well known for your anti SANFL views and the constant derogatory remarks about South Australians and their ways, referring to them as blinkered and insular(eg: they, South Australians, still think they have the second best league when in reality it is the most boring.)

Reserve teams belong in a reserve competition. The SANFL clubs belong in the SANFL competition. The magpies are no longer members. They saw it fit to go to the national competition. Their choice. The other 8 can stand alone.

Then why do I have a DVD of the 1989 VFL Grand Final at home?

VFL changed to the AFL in 1990

[DOC]

True. "Expansion" in 1987.