Under19, Under18, Under17 ??

[Dogwatcher]

Especially in the country.

There's some struggling clubs out there. Some aren't the usual suspects either.

[am Bays]

I would suggest kids leave country clubs for more than just playing footy.

Education and Work would be the main reasons. Even if a kid does go back to play at that club, the club is still up for petrol costs and reimbursements, thereby putting a strain on teh clubs resources.

Given the education demands of uni and of finishing year 12, especially with kids doing yrs 11 & 12 over 3 years and the resultant social changes that has promoted, I would have thought at least keeping the U/19s would have been the best option both in a football and social sense.

[Dogwatcher]

Tassie - there are multitudes of kids 15-17 traveling down to Adelaide to play for their SANFL clubs each weekend. They don't all live in the city.
Many of those kids could be playing A grade football.

I understand from discussion with officials that that is part of the selling point for the changes, as it allows the kids to get their SANFL development, as well as contribute to their clubs.

[Wedgie]

If year 11 or 12 goes over 3 years then IMHO they'd be much better staying settled at the same school until the end of their schooling. Heading off at 16 would be pretty disruptive if they were picked in Under 17s and probably send their schoolwork backwards while settling into city life and a lot of training IMHO.
Invalid argument IMHO.

[am Bays]

AS I said I don't have a real problem with getting rid of the 17s I do have a problem with the U/19s. AS I understand it clubs will only be allowed to have 4 over age players. For clubs with distant country zones, that IMO is a distinct disadvantge to them as their ability to bring a kid up after they ahve finished school in teh country and then settle them into uni/aprecticship, get used to elite football and fit into living in abig city will be limited to 1 year - too short IMO.

AS I said before I believe the Eagles proposal was probably the best given the desire for change and having a system that is reflective both of current athlete development models and social changes.

[Ecky]

I am one who is not convinced at all that the proposed changes would help the SANFL.

Someone like Trent Grosser would have never had a chance at Glenelg under the new system - he only came down from the country last year when he was 18 (and too old for an U18 competition). Under the current system he could play (almost) a full year in the U19s and then make the step up to the Reserves side this year. Now it looks like there is a good chance he will become an important League player in the future.

There really aren't that many 18 year olds who are ready to regularly play Reserves. So currently, if they are a fringe reserves player they can move between the U19s and Reserves and stay at the same club. Under the new system, they would have to move between Glenelg and some amateur club, which is much more difficult to do, and hence they are much more likely to give up their dream to play League football at an earlier stage. So the overall standard of the SANFL competition is likely to decline.

I am convinced that the SANFL have been bullied into this decision by the interests of the AFL, who don't care less about the health of the SANFL competition.

PS RedandBlack - I too would love to see some figures on the percentage of U17 and U19 players who make it to SANFL League level. I'll see what I can find out.

If you just take into account regular U17/U19 players (and ignore the many who just fill in for a game or two) I suspect it would be somewhat higher than the 10% figure that you suggest, but that is just a guess!

[Dirko]

Spot on Ecky. What is going to happen to the U19 kids ? How many overage players can a team have ? Are they going to increase the size of the reserves squad ? Crap in my opinion....

Can get a real talented kid who's 15 play in the U17's as the size difference is minimal, play that same kid in U18's with OVERAGE players and watch him get smashed....

What will be the deal for the clubs as well if there's triple headers ? Long day for the volunteers and staff.

Next thing...seeya SANFL, hello AFL SA...

[TigerBoss]

I am one who is not convinced at all that the proposed changes would help the SANFL.

Someone like Trent Grosser would have never had a chance at Glenelg under the new system - he only came down from the country last year when he was 18 (and too old for an U18 competition). Under the current system he could play (almost) a full year in the U19s and then make the step up to the Reserves side this year. Now it looks like there is a good chance he will become an important League player in the future.

There really aren't that many 18 year olds who are ready to regularly play Reserves. So currently, if they are a fringe reserves player they can move between the U19s and Reserves and stay at the same club. Under the new system, they would have to move between Glenelg and some amateur club, which is much more difficult to do, and hence they are much more likely to give up their dream to play League football at an earlier stage. So the overall standard of the SANFL competition is likely to decline.

I am convinced that the SANFL have been bullied into this decision by the interests of the AFL, who don't care less about the health of the SANFL competition.

PS RedandBlack - I too would love to see some figures on the percentage of U17 and U19 players who make it to SANFL League level. I'll see what I can find out.

If you just take into account regular U17/U19 players (and ignore the many who just fill in for a game or two) I suspect it would be somewhat higher than the 10% figure that you suggest, but that is just a guess!

Do you stats nerds always take "guesses"? I thought you would have some hard data?

[Ecky]

Do you stats nerds always take "guesses"? I thought you would have some hard data?

All that I can find is what is on the SANFL website, which only goes back to 2006.

[ca]

Surely we lose players to the SANFL for a number of reasons. We might lose 20 year olds because we don't have an under 21 competition and some of those players take longer to develop. I'm not convinced about that argument of losing players in the system. If they have the desire they will eventually make it.

I'm also not convinced about the argument of losing potential members and support staff either. if they keep a modified u16 competition that still exists to some extent. I think the current system is a bit outdated and needs changing so the more I think about it the more I am happy with the change.

Interesting out at Norwood this year we have had about 1O guys move from the U19's to reserves. Of those 10 about 7 fall into the U18 category and most seem to now have a regular position. Those in the U19 age group have dropped back to the U19 and can't get a regular spot in the reserves.

[JK]

I am convinced that the SANFL have been bullied into this decision by the interests of the AFL, who don't care less about the health of the SANFL competition.

As someone who is VERY removed from all of this and just tries to keep up with it via what he reads here and there, it sounds more like the SANFL has thrown it out to the clubs (most likelly from an AFL push) but the clubs themselves that have forced the decision, no doubt fuelled by what they believe is in their own best interests (natural enough I guess).

Most footy supporters seem to be throwing up arguments for or against to support their own clubs stance, which again is natural enough.

I'm guessing my own club's incentive is perhaps the re-working of boundaries and if that works in our favour I should be supportive, but I must admit to having pretty big doubts about this, hopefully I can discuss further with someone at the club over the weekend to get a better understanding.

[darley16]

Constance my club, South is in favour of u/18 and i can assure you iám very much against it as it appears are other Southies as per our panther fan forum website. This goes beyond club ties and what is best for all the SANFL comp.

[JK]

Constance my club, South is in favour of u/18 and i can assure you iám very much against it as it appears are other Southies as per our panther fan forum website. This goes beyond club ties and what is best for all the SANFL comp.

Good onya fella, I agree wholeheartedly with your priority of being whats best for the comp (state even) ... Without the comp there aint no clubs.

[Dogwatcher]

I have to sit on the fence on this one.
Obviously my SANFL club is against it but for football clubs in my region it could be very helpful.

[Wedgie]

Spot on Ecky. What is going to happen to the U19 kids ? How many overage players can a team have ? Are they going to increase the size of the reserves squad ? Crap in my opinion....

If they're not in the 4 or 5 picked in the Under 18 side they'll be monitored by capable recruiting staff how they do at their local club. If they improve enough to warrant reserves football the competent SANFL clubs recruiters will be on them like a flash and get them back to their SANFL club, but obviously that's for about 5% of the footballers or less, but it is good to know that even a small minority will be picked up no less than they currently do, this issue was addressed at length by John Halbert and I think I've heard Sticks Phillips talk about it before to.
For the others they'll be playing in a higher standard comp which will allow them to progress further and quicker.
It'll also enhance relationships between SANFL clubs and local clubs, its a bit of a mess in places at the moment.
Its a win/win situation.
Only those with incompetent recruiters will be disadvantaged.

[Sojourner]

Constance my club, South is in favour of u/18 and i can assure you iám very much against it as it appears are other Southies as per our panther fan forum website. This goes beyond club ties and what is best for all the SANFL comp.

Agree with you there, I am not impressed that the club neglected to canvas the opinions of members before making the decision to support the AFL model.

[croc11]

No coincidence that the struggling clubs at the moment want the change. Westies (run by Victorians) - South (run by a Victorian) - North and Norwood whilst the former has been successful of late, Norwood have struggled although they do have a good group of Under 15 Kids. One of the other reasons that some of these clubs put forward for change - is because it is too hard having to work both the 17's and 19's - which is another major reason why some of the Clubs would love to see only 1 compeition.

Shouldn't one of the big questions be - what is the SANFL going to do with the College System?

If nothing - how can you have an elite competition when 2-3 clubs won't be able to field competitive sides week in and week out due to college commitments - Someone please answer this question!!!! Isn't this NOT an elite and even competition then.

Too many SANFL people on the gravy train and how many people making the decision have actually sat down and watched 17's and 19's footy.

And the reality is that not many 17's kids go on and play league Footy - the same thing has occurred well before the AFL was even a national competition .. you would find very few end up making the final grade, but what a stepping stone for many kids to play at this level.

[JK]

No coincidence that the struggling clubs at the moment want the change. Westies (run by Victorians) - South (run by a Victorian) - North and Norwood whilst the former has been successful of late, Norwood have struggled although they do have a good group of Under 15 Kids.

Would have thought that was irrelevant .. In reality everyone other than Central and the Eagles have struggled at some point in recent years.

Shouldn't one of the big questions be - what is the SANFL going to do with the College System?

If nothing - how can you have an elite competition when 2-3 clubs won't be able to field competitive sides week in and week out due to college commitments - Someone please answer this question!!!! Isn't this NOT an elite and even competition then.

This is an excellent question .. I agree with what you're saying and would like to know how changing to a new system does anything to improve the availability of college players.

[redandblack]

This hasn't just come about because of the Clubs. The SANFL has a big say in the change and has a Development Committee.

I'm sure you will see the Reserves become more of an Under 21 type competition as well. The Reserves used to have a lot of older fringe league players, but in recent years that has changed and it's now a very much younger comp. Teams will load up their Reserves with their most promising 18 and 19 years old players who have just missed out on being eligible for Under 18's.

As I've said, the percentage of Under 17's who make league football is less than 10% and this change will produce a much higher level comp.

[croc11]

If you make the reserves an under age competition - it seriously weakens the competition and OH we see a weaker League as a result.

The SANFL is a sensational comp once again - why weaken the standard with kids some of whom may not yet be ready.

Anyway enough of my ranting - the main question is what will happen to the college kids who can't play in this Elite Competition and how does this then make the 18's the elite level competition with a good third missing from most sides.